Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Depot packing

my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home

»	Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE » Operations » Film Handlers' Forum » Depot packing (Page 2)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Author

Topic: Depot packing

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-25-1999 04:45 PM

One of two shows, yes I have already agreed for changeovers as my preference. But, take those exact same professional operators running a print reel to reel and give them a platter, and the film will leave better a month or two down the road than if they had run reel to reel. Platters exert far less stress on the film. Reel to reel (unless there is a feed motor driving the reel) is still a brute force action...as is rewinding after every performance.

I'm not arguing bad platter operator vs. good changeover operator. I'm taking the quality of the operator out of the equation and comparing film transport methods for runs of any length.

| IP: Logged

George Roher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 266
From: Washington DC
Registered: Jul 99

posted 07-26-1999 01:06 AM

I did relief work in a change-over booth today, and was very impressed with the condition of "Phantom Menace", considering how long that print has been running. There is so much extra leader on it that the actual show isn't being constantly handled and the leaders all look brand new. But I'll agree with Brad that platter operation, with a real tech, is probably less stressful on film. It just seems to me that most of the print damage I've encounted with used flicks is from improper platter tear down. Too many operators let the film rub on the platter, or run it at lightning speed until it gets tangled and snaps. Then they put tape on it and keep going.

| IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 07-26-1999 01:22 AM

I can answer that one in one word...

TECHNICOLOR!

Technicolor is the reason for such poor handling. It is due to their insistence of having their prints back bright and early the next morning, and often by midnight! There is no time to be careful, although many projectionists DO take their time...most do not.

I think most people will agree with me here.

| IP: Logged

Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-26-1999 07:51 PM

I've always thought that prints were duplicated on machines that have an auto-reverse mechanism in them. That way all they have to do is load up the negative and the raw stock and turn the machine on. When the negative hits the end of the reel, it reverses to print the next copy. Hence the reason half the reels come out backwards. Also, this would explain all the lab splices in weird places because when the raw stock gets low, they have to quickly splice on a new reel of stock before the machine runs out of film. (I understand they are over 100 feet long and have rows and rows of 'accumulators' in them.)

If this is not true, then by all means, correct me.

When I get a print that has most of the reels backwards, I build it up onto 6K' reels tails first and from last reel to first. That way I don't have to rewind the whole damn print. All you do is decide which way would give you less rewinding. I've often built the first half of the movie the 'backward way' and worked on the second half while the other reel(s) was spinning onto the platter.

Reel bands? We don't need no stinking reel bands!

| IP: Logged

Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

posted 07-26-1999 10:46 PM

I just couldn't resist posting this one!!!

I JUST finished building up a print of "Tango", not 10 minutes ago. (Sony Pictures Classics) and those damn cheap Technicolor reels did it again!

This time, when the reel 'melted down', it split in half ACROSS THE DIAMETER! It must have had a crack in it which caused it to blow apart from centrifugal force. Luckily, I was only going half speed or the thing would have imbedded itself in the wall! As it was, it went flying past my head at an alarmingly fast speed!

Then, when I stopped the platter and went to take the thing off the spindle, it split in half widthwise, as usual.

Go Figure!

| IP: Logged

George Roher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 266
From: Washington DC
Registered: Jul 99

posted 07-26-1999 11:25 PM

Yes, Technicolor's overbearing impatience is the cause of a lot of poor and inventive film handling. I know an operator who used to break down prints while they were still on screen, when Technicrapper wanted them back Thursday night. He would get a staff member, or me if I was around, to hold the failsafe up with a Q-tip. When the splice at the end of reel 4 was through the machine and on the platter post, he would snap it and wind the start of reel 5 onto another deck. Next he'd quickly take up all the film that had payed out on the floor during the process (he usually put large trash bags under the machine so the film wasn't really going on the floor). Then he would proceed to break down R1-4 while 5 & 6 played, which gave him enough time to wind at a moderate speed. Then he only had 2 reels to deal with after the show. It's sounds crazy but it really worked and the prints went out in good condition.

[This message has been edited by George Roher (edited 07-26-99).]

| IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 07-26-1999 11:43 PM

I have broken prints down in that manner many times!!! I can do it alone, though, as I have the ability to disengage the failsafes so it doesn't matter if they drop. I usually will just let the last reel play to a different deck unless it is too short by itself to get the rest of the print done. This trick is easier to do on a STRONG platter than a Christie platter since they are so much quicker and easier to thread, but I have been able to do it without any problems on a Christie. When the film is broken down I take it downstairs only to be informed that I am giving them the wrong print number (if we have two prints). I tell them that's what they are getting since nobody specified a print number to me and they can shove it. If I am in a generous mood, I will switch cans, but that is rare. =p

[This message has been edited by Joe Redifer (edited 07-26-99).]

| IP: Logged

George Roher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 266
From: Washington DC
Registered: Jul 99

posted 08-03-1999 10:05 PM

Technicolor has done it again. I got a print in for a screening last night that had the heads and tails poorly attached with masking tape, and the operator had put masking tape all over the first few frames of the picture too. Technicolor called the manager and said they wanted their print back right after the show, and then changed their minds after I had broken it down rather quickly! Today a Highway print came in for a screening, and it was in mint condition even though it had been run on a platter before. Big difference!

| IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 08-03-1999 10:55 PM

"and it was in mint condition even though it was run on a platter before."

George, platters do NOT scratch film. Operators do. Actually, running reel to reel is more dangerous to a print due to the constant stress inflicted upon the print during rewinding and brute force pulldown of the reel. With platters, there is no significant amount of stress. Tension varies during the length of the reel when running changeover. Plus, on a platter the heads and tails of each reel are not being constantly handled. The only time I would vote for a changeover setup is for a theater running a film 3 or less times, for convenience.

If you're ever in the Dallas area, I'll be happy to give you a detailed explanation and training on platters. Forgive me if you didn't intend for your wording to come out as it did, but it clearly sounded like platters "could not" run film without damage. That is absolutely not true at all.

| IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-04-1999 02:57 PM

Way back when I was working in this multi and we had ET open there on two screen both played the print for 6 months. The #1 screen had a pair of Vic10's running reel to reel and the second one matched the rest of the complex with Vic8's and ORC platters
At the end of 6 months the reel to reel print was in far better shape than the plattered print. If the tension on the take up and feed reel is kept properly adjusted, and rewind is limited to 1/2 the running time and rewound tight prints don't show much wear.
The theatre also used drypur rollers (sillyputty rollers that long predate PTR's) to keep the print clean.
When properly maintained and run most reel to reel operation causes very little wear. Last summer we ran Titanic in 70 on reels for 3 months at Ontario Place and the print left here with no marks. It was cleaned with drypurs on the rewind every show and with PTR's on each projector
In our 3d theatre we used to have here at Ontario Place during the summer it was not uncommon to run 1200-2000 passes on each print of our 70mm 3d films and it was allways on reels not platters. And that was on what was probably the crudest 70mm machines ever built the wassmans.
These prints were in some cases sold to other establishments and are still probably playing

| IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 08-04-1999 03:10 PM

I have no doubt there are plenty of good changeover operators out there who keep their equipment in top aligned state. Unfortunately, I do not know any. All the ones I've seen fail to add extra head and tail leader to each reel and end up with dirt accumulation at the start and end of each reel. Also, they all exhibited cinch marks from rewinding/transporting. Personally, I add 25 feet of framing mylar to the head leader and 25 feet of clear film to the tail leader of each reel on a changeover show. That is the only real way to keep the print perfectly clean reel to reel. Perhaps I am too picky in terms of dirt, but if any is visible at all is is unacceptable to me. The print must be as clean as a DVD.

...and 70mm is cheating when discussing dirt accumulation. There is less of a blowup and any dirt will not project, or as large.

| IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 08-04-1999 05:04 PM

I couldn't resist the 70mm pont but Et was 35mm
But our 3d show ran every 45min on a 30 minute film approx 4000' of 70mm film plus a 35mm mag audio track on the dubber so there was a lot of hurried threading to thread the 2 70mm machines and the dubber and then interlock the hole mess and then start rewinding the previous show
There are still a couple of operators in the Toronto local that take my name in vain because I wouldn't install either loop cabinets or platters
To bad

| IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 08-04-1999 06:58 PM

Loop cabinets are great.
Platters are great.
But those endless loop platters must be destroyed!

| IP: Logged

George Roher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 266
From: Washington DC
Registered: Jul 99

posted 08-04-1999 11:53 PM

Brad, I think you misunderstood me, or my words were poorly chosen. I have run prints for many months on a platter without any scratches accumulating, so you are absolutely correct. Actually, I have run platters the overwhelming majority of my time in booths and the two screenings I referred to in my post were run at a platter house. I was griping about the quality of fellow platter operators, especially when faced with a Technicolor rush job.

| IP: Logged

All times are Central (GMT -6:00)

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.