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Author Topic: Curved Screens vs Flat Screens
Steve Scott
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1300
From: Minneapolis, MN
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 07-16-2001 10:52 PM      Profile for Steve Scott   Email Steve Scott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We have 5 curved screens, 13 flat, and I always seem to notice that the flat lenses on our Century SA's won't crop the bottom of the frame as well as they will on the flat screens.
We have all stadium seating, but our curved screens are only in the largest & second largest auditoriums (464 & 264 seats, respectively).
I find the picture in the small houses to be overpowering with our large flat screens, but the curved screens seem to be far away in the rear of the large houses. You feel like you're watching from the ceiling.

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 07-18-2001 06:40 PM      Profile for Jeffry L. Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Jeffry L. Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have a 1980 IMAX booklet that lists the following films as OMNIMAX films.

Voyage to the Outer Planets (1973)
Garden Isle (1973)
Standing Up Country (1973)
Cosmos (1974)
Viva Baja (1975)
Rivers of North America (1976)
Ocean (1977)
Alfa (1978)
Genesis (1979)
Atmos (Storm) (1980)
The Eruption of Mount St. Helens (1980)
Library of Astronomical Phenomena (1980)
The Great Barrier Reef (1980)

In production:

Tomorrow in Space (1982)
Hail Columbia (1982)

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-18-2001 10:16 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hail Columbia was released as a flat film with Omni sequences
Some of those other titles were a composite product not looking too good in either format

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William Bunch
Film Handler

Posts: 87
From: Misawa, Japan
Registered: Nov 2001


 - posted 11-21-2001 12:42 AM      Profile for William Bunch   Author's Homepage   Email William Bunch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm new here so forgive me if this gets into the wrong location.
I am tasked with maintenance of 35 or so military theaters out here in the Pacific. As many of you might know our operations are quite old but they still hum along quite nicely.

My question is concerning the curved screens. All of our frames are curved but only a mild one. I'm assuming this had something to do with the old 20 pound Super Panatar prism anamorphics that we used to employ. Nowdays we are using Schneiders and the majority of our screens are average 15 x 35 feet. Most auditoriums seat 400 - 500
with a couple theaters twice as large.

About six years ago we began being issued silver screens to replace our matte whites. We get good contrast and brightness but that is only for the audience in the middle seats. Our auditoriums are multi use facilities so the seat rows go quite far off of center. Also being multi use these silver screens are prone to gathering handprints, etc.

At ShoWest this last March the Harkness Hall folks said we should not be using silver at all but rather Perlux or matte white. I wonder what the group would have to say about this. I have read through all the earlier postings and can find nothing to disagree with as you all have good points indeed.

Would Perlux give the best features of both matte white and silver?

Bill Bunch
Army, Air Force Exchange Service

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-21-2001 07:06 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only point to a silver screen is for 3-D....to get even illumination, one has to curve it substantially.

Depending on the curve of your screen, either a matte-white or a perlux (if using Harkness) would indeed be appropriate. If the curve' radius is on the order of the projection distance, then matte-white would be my preference...as the curve increases (shorter radius) then the pearl screen will peform best. To really get the right screen though, one HAS to match up screen-gain with the geometry of the projection and auditorium. People that just pick a screen gain and radius willy nilly, don't know what they are doing.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 11-21-2001 07:42 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The first good thing are the Panatars are retired so your situations have improved light and better focus. Silver screens should not be used but any pearl gain screen on a mildly curved frame would be better since I assume you have sufficient light output from your lamphouse.Hand prints on silver are a major problem but also less so on pearl since you dealing with another type of coated surface. Schneider Optical with the help of Harkness and Kodak did screen curvature tests to find the ideal situation with current lenses etc; the results of the information are part of the Schneider Lens program which you can download from their site.
Silver has been popular in some Pacific areas such as the cinemas built by the Shaw Brothers and some Golden Harvest but they where designed for the fact that most of the product they where producing and showing was in scope and to boost image brightness from less efficient lamphouses.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Jerry Chase
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1068
From: Margate, FL, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 11-21-2001 07:49 AM      Profile for Jerry Chase   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Harkness Hall is right. I'd opt for matte white. In a pinch, a matte white screen can be touched up without degrading the image too much.

Other than 3-D, the only time I'd go for a silver screen is in a shotgun auditorium with an undersized lamphouse.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-21-2001 08:01 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Harkness Hall ran a fairly comprehensive study of screen gain and curvature a few years ago, and presented a report at the ITEA Seminar in Los Angeles. Participants included Schneider Optics, Kodak, Lucasfilm, and Famous Players theatres.

SMPTE Recommended Practice RP 95 specifies "Installation of Gain Screens".

The optimal way to determine the proper curve is by ray tracing. The idea is to curve a gain screen such that the projected light is reflected back to the center of the prime seating area.

Very high gain "silver" screens are VERY directional, and as you note, sensitive to handprints, showing seams, etc. Their primary application is polarized 3D projection, which requires a screen that maintains polarization of the reflected light.

For moderate (15 x 35 foot) sized screens, a matte or slight gain surface is the best choice, since getting enough light is usually not an issue.

Here are some links to information:
http://www.bksts.demon.co.uk/articles/jul97.htm
http://www.harknesshall.com/data1.htm
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/reel/fall97/screen.shtml
http://www.schneideroptics.com/software/theatre_design_pro/
http://www.schneideroptics.com/info/white_papers/cinema_projection_distortion.pdf

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-21-2001 09:35 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I much prefer the Perlux 2 surface if the budget will support it. Perlux 1 is really made for wrap around type frames and cannot be folded for transport wheras Perlux 1 can be folded into a box(in a special way) and sent by UPS. Its obvious that you have a fairly wide auditorium and a silver screen will never work right in that sort of situation. Silver screens are very directional in their characteristics and will only be best viewed from a limited number of seats in any auditorium. My definate choise for a really large screen that has just a slight curve(which is fine)would be Perlux. You'll have a good compromise on reflectivity vs. seating area with this surface. Perlux is also a fairly long lived surface as well. If you think there might be problems where the screen may get dirty then a matte white is the best choice as it can be cleaned by several methods that all give good results. As far as brand...stick only with Harkness. They make the best surface by far and are a pleasure to do buisness with.

Proper installation of a Harkness screen is imperitive for proper performance of the surface and few people are aware of how this should be done. The top of the screen should be installed with either lacing cord loops all the same size, or black cable ties. The bottom of the screen is then stretched about ten to twelve inches, or to make the top and bottom gap even. Use standard lacing procedures on the bottom but go back and forth a couple of times to stretch it down that much. The sides can be sprung or laced in, what ever you prefer. On curved frames pay close attention to the center of the screen to be sure that it does not belly out from being tensioned too tight on the sides. When the screen is tensioned ten inches to a foot, the seams and any slight wrinkles literally vanish completely and the surface looks to be seamless.
Mark @ GTS


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William Bunch
Film Handler

Posts: 87
From: Misawa, Japan
Registered: Nov 2001


 - posted 11-21-2001 03:33 PM      Profile for William Bunch   Author's Homepage   Email William Bunch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In our largest theaters we are using 3kw xenons in LPA lamphouses. The distance to the screen is usually 75 feet. Our really small theaters use the 2kw versions but there the distance is usually around 50-70 feet. None have staduim type slopes and the projectors are on the next floor up. Small angle. Brightness is not usually the problem. Its just the combination of the curve and the silver directing the brightness down the center only. Our curve is very slight. Probably less than two foot difference between center screen and edge. You guys are right. The Perlux would be the way to go for us. Best of both worlds.

Here is a tidbit about how directive silver is. As I stated, we use these auditoriums during the day for other functions besides movies. A commander will assemble the troops for some briefing and use his slide projector to illustrate some topic. When we first switched over to silver the first complaint was "what have you done to the screen?" "We can't see our slides anymore." Well, since their wimpy projectors were setup at chair level all the light was now being reflected up into the border curtains at the top of the stage. If I went into our booth I could see a beautiful bright image but the viewers in the seats would only see a low contrast washed out picture. When I change to Perlux these folks should get most of their picture back.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this issue. Have a nice Thanksgiving.

Bill BuncH
AAFES, Japan

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