Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Bulb Rotations (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Bulb Rotations
Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 10-12-1999 05:35 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We here, have always been under the assumption (though, admittedly, never proved) that the bulb although hot when in operation, is cooled by the forced air. At the instant of shut-down, the bulb is still almost at operating temperature and, for a short time, needs the forced air to prevent heat from damaging the seals, ect.

I like the system Osram uses on their 1600-watt and smaller bulbs for rotation. Install the bulb with the washer in place on the negative end. At half-life, disconnect the positive clamp, unscrew the bulb, and throw the washer away. When you screw the bulb back in, it will automatically have rotated 1/2 turn. With our booths being operated by those with less experience than in the past, this is probably a good thing.

I agree with both Joe and Gord that flicker problems may occur unless the bulb current is raised for a short period (a day or so) to allow the new position to "set".

Here's a question or two. We have always advised booth personnel to install the bulb so that the quartz "tit" (seal) is not straight up, but at the 9:00 or 3:00 position; the theory being that this supposedly weak point should not be at the top of the bulb where the greatest heat would occur. Agree or not?
Second question: Someone who should know (but maybe didn't like me) once told me that in order to de-gas a xenon bulb before throwing it away, it is only necessary to take a pair of side-cutters and nip off this "tit". Anyone ever tried this, and do you now carry a white (how would you know) cane?

 |  IP: Logged

John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-12-1999 08:22 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Regarding leaving the fan on: We don't. We shut off both the lamphouse blower and the roof exhaust at the same time and go home.

But this might not be good for everybody. Now, I don't know this for a fact, but maybe it works this way:
Let's say at lamp "A," the temperture at the bulb seals runs at 75% of max. allowed. When the fans are shut off at night, the temperture rises to 95%, but then starts to cool down. No problem.
At lamp "B," the temperture at the bulb seals runs at 85% of max. allowed, cause the fan is not so good. When the fans are shut off, the seal temp goes up to 105%. Not good.

Personally, I think the bulb temp should remain the same at all times, as much as is possable. So if I worked at theater "A", I would just shut off all fans between shows. That way, the bulb doesn't cycle from cold to hot, over and over.

We had 4 Zenith/Cinemecannica lamphouses with that Osram 1600 watt lamp with the spacing washers. I know I sound like I'm lazy, but it was a hassle to deal with them. There was no support at the + end, so you had to be careful disconnecting it because the threads get corroded. The plastic cover the bulb is shipped in is also needed as a removing tool, and someone would throw it away. When you are an in-house tech and trying to keep 35-40 screens running, you want to get rid of these kinds of "nuisance" maintaince items, however small.

I doubt that that little nib where the air is sucked out is weaker than the rest. I would think it would be stronger. I sure it would be mentioned in the installation procedures if it were true. Can't hurt, though. Of course it also doesn't matter which way a bulb is rotated, but you might make up your own bulb record chart stating clearly which way to go. Don't forget to put your name and phone number on it for a little "polite" advertising.

As far as cutting off the nib to de-gas the bulb; holy smokes! You seem like a nice guy to me, but that fellow must really dislike you. I wrap them in several layers of newspaper, and they still shred the paper when exploded.

I don't know if any of you have a cfm meter, but I would highly suggest it. They are not too expensive - $300. In the Xetron lamp support manual, they suggest 500 cfm for a 4000w lamp. If you specify that during construction of a new theater, it's great to be able to stick that thing in there and turn to the HVAC guy and say, "Not enough." Then turn directly to the owners and say, "Please don't blame me for bulbs dying early. It will cost you X amount extra over the next 5 years because this fan doesn't meet spec."

Anyway, sorry to blab on.

 |  IP: Logged

Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-13-1999 02:18 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Degassing bulbs? Doesn't everybody just put 'em in the trash compactor and bust 'em?

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-13-1999 03:12 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If you find it ideal to keep the bulb the same temperature all of the time, you should just leave it on 24 hours a day. That is the only way this can be accomplished. But that is actually not something I would seriously recommend.

At my theatre, we have it set up so that when you shut down the projector and turn off the exhaust switch, the exhaust actually stays on for 10 minutes before automatically shutting off. So that way we can just go home and the bulbs still get adequate cooling. Like I said before, I get AT LEAST 1300-1400 hours out of a 4000 watt bulb (in the worst case scenario) so I don't think I'm doing anything wrong.

As far as disposing of the bulbs, I just put the sheild thingy that they came in back on them, put them in their original box and tape it up. I then toss it onto the concrete floor about 10 feet in front of me. Boom. In the trash it goes.

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 10-13-1999 04:28 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We destroy our old bulbs by leaving them in the protective wrapping, wrapping that in several layers of heavy canvas, and hitting or stressing the electrodes until the bulb pops. We leave the quartz shards in the canvas, label it as a laceration hazard, and discard with waste laboratory glassware. Generally have saved the tungsten electodes as conversation pieces.

Is there any scrap market for used tungsten electrodes? Does Will Rogers charity collect them for scrap value, as they used to do for copper drippings from carbon lamps?

Would NEVER even think of throwing out an old bulb without breaking it first. Likwise, would NEVER risk injury by breaking the bulb without having it in its' protective case and several layers of canvas. We wear the full "regalia" of protective clothing whenever we handle a bulb, including full face shield, "gauntlets" that extend up the wrist, and ballistic nylon jumpsuit. We want to keep both eyes, and not spill any blood.

------------------
John Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Eastman Kodak Company
Rochester, NY 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243


 |  IP: Logged

John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-13-1999 04:47 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>"If you find it ideal to keep the bulb the same temperature all of the time, you should just leave it on 24 hours a day. That is the only way this can be accomplished. But that is actually not something I would seriously recommend."

Oh, no, I agree. I didn't explain myself too well. I just meant that if the temp doesn't get too high, I would just shut off the lamp and fans. Ideally, it would still warm when the next show started. Remember those "instant-on TV sets?"

I would even consiter leaving them on while the theater was open, but the light would burn a hole in the shutter (or zipper.) There would have to be a electrically operated dowser.

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-13-1999 07:55 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I like to keep the old bulbs in the front seat of my car. Traffic in Dallas can be quite bad at some times, and it's awful nice to be able to toss one of those bad boys at an offending car to get their attention!!!

Seriously though, I think John Pytlak has the best recommendations on destroying bulbs. It's how we do it too.

 |  IP: Logged

Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-13-1999 11:39 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Really, I usually just put them back in the box. (In the plastic 'clam shell', too) and toss 'em on the floor good and hard.

I once took one out back of the house, into the woods and shot one with a .22 rifle. It was pretty cool, although it would have been a lot less cool if I wasn't 100 yards away from it when it shattered. Some good-sized chunks of glass flew almost 20 feet.

What would be really cool is to take some super slo-motion films of one of those babies blowing up. Wouldn't that make a good training video?

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-13-1999 11:47 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds like a job for Joe Redifer! He's got all that fancy digital camera and computer video editing stuff.

 |  IP: Logged

Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-14-1999 01:14 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Fancy-shmancy! I got all of my gear at K-Mart!

 |  IP: Logged

Darren Brown
Film Handler

Posts: 2
From: Buenos Aires Argentina
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-14-1999 01:10 PM      Profile for Darren Brown   Email Darren Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I used to work for a company that modidied the rectifiers to step down to half power in between sessions. This was to minimise the variations in temperature as well as tthe number of times the lamp is struck (once per day). I now have 62 screens with christie lamp and console combo which shut off and restrike 6 times per day and the life of the lamp is about the same, between 3,000 and 4,000 hours (Some up to 6,000). I beleive the secret is good ventillation, rotate and increase amperage when they start to flicker and replace when the flicker is impossible to control or they start to go black.
P.S We have only ever had one lamp explode in 3 years which was an osram at only 800 hours.

 |  IP: Logged

Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-14-1999 01:19 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only lamp that I've seen explode (Not due to gunfire) was because of poor ventilation.

In the CFS (4200watt) lamphouse, there is a blower pipe that feeds air to the bulb. It somehow got turned so that it did't point at the bulb anymore. We had a series of bulbs that didn't last very long. (Less than 500 hrs.)

Our lamphouses' internal blower is on as long as the power is on and has a 20 minute off-delay. The Exhaust blower is on 24/7. (The main reason for that is so people don't forget to turn them on.)

 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-15-1999 10:04 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Turning off the fans imediatly with extinguishing the lamp causes a sudden rise in seal temperature that can cause a failure.
Rick when we degass the 15K Imax lamps we snip off the seal tit but only after we submerge it in Liquid Nitrogen for 10 minutes!
The intense cold drops the internal pressure of the lamp to under 1.5 atmospheres so the just make a nice hiss when they get snipped
Sometime they also go bang as they get dipped so be carefull but they do make nice lobby displays especially if you mount a flash tube behind them
I used to have a Hanovia 7K that was refilled with neon so that it would glow between the electrodes when connected to a sign transformer

 |  IP: Logged

Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 10-15-1999 03:23 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There, see? I knew the sonofabitch didn't like me! He never mentioned anything about the liquid nitrogen!

 |  IP: Logged

Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-15-1999 08:28 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rick it was Ed Mccormack that tought me how to degass a bulb that way

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.