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Author Topic: A question about Cinemark presentations
John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 10-28-1999 11:30 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Today, analog soundtracks are printed so the soundtrack information is either printed in the cyan+magenta layer (looks dark blue), or in the magenta layer only (looks magenta), known as "high magenta". During processing, the lab applies a special viscous soundtrack developer after the bleaching step, to redevelop silver in the soundtrack area. Silver is needed to properly modulate the light in older "white light" soundheads that are sensitive to both visible and infrared light. If the soundtrack redeveloper is not applied properly, the sound may have unusual noises (thumps, pops, wooshing sound) or be low in level. The soundtrack areas where the silver was not redeveloped properly will look lighter or "less black" than the areas that have silver. If the soundtrack redeveloper accidently gets into the picture area, it will cause a dark colored deposit of silver.

The new "red readers" that use a red LED as the light source do not need silver in the soundtrack, as they are not sensitive to infrared light. In a few years, when most theatres have converted to red LED readers, the film industry hopes to convert to analog soundtracks that are printed in the cyan dye layer, and eliminate the cost and problems of redeveloping the silver. The current "high magenta" tracks are a step in that direction, as they are more compatible with both old "white light" and new red LED readers. High magenta tracks still require the soundtrack redeveloper step to form silver in the soundtrack area.

------------------
John Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Eastman Kodak Company
Rochester, NY 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-29-1999 04:14 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Mr. P.

Now I know that I'm not crazy. (Well...)

We've had this problem for a long time, on and off and it drives me nuts! (Okay, a short walk...)

We call it the "Spitfire Effect" 'cuz that's the first movie we noticed it in... (Spitfire Grill -- Almost 3 years ago!)

It sounds like a scraping or rumbling sound. Usually only audible in the quiet parts, but sometimes pretty loud. It often starts in the middle of a reel and ends abruptly at change-over. We've probably had to get over a dozen replacement reels over the years. (We pretty much always knew it was the film, just didn't know WHY.)

Finally, the last time it happened, I stopped the projector (The only guy in there got a rain check and LEFT) and I looked at the film in the light. When I found the wonky-looking soundtrack I cut out a frame or two and saved it. (I hope it didn't get tossed)

Essentially, all this means is that there's ANOTHER stupid lab/processing error that I have to look out for when I build up prints.... JEEZ!!!


TIP: Don't screen your movies in digital! If you do, you might not find out till two weeks later when the print moves to a non-digital house!!! It will probably be on a Friday night when you get 9,000,001 complaints!!!

(Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, Thank you... Please Drive through!)

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-29-1999 04:55 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't think not screening movies in digital is necessarily the best idea. Perhaps the SR track is fine but the digital track is defective! For that matter, with theaters boasting all 3 flavors of digital, it would require 4 different prescreenings to find out for sure for future compatibility!!!

I've seen tracks with tiny white dots (like negative dirt) in the optical track before. They sound like surface noise on a badly scratched record (say a stereo record played on a mono player and then played again on a stereo turntable). I know many of the Abyss prints were like that and I still find this defect occasionally with current releases. Fortunately the problem does not show up near as much with the led system.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 10-29-1999 05:59 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The green tag on trailers being better or worse is obviously a matter of opinion (since we have seen both sides expressed here). I'll throw my opinion into the ring with leave them on...they are part of the preview. They are also a source of information to the viewer...ie what is the feature rated in the following preview. There is also a safty for the theatre in that a green tag trailer HAS been approved for ALL audiences though certainly running THE MATRIX trailers on your CARE BARES feature is probably out of place.

With regard to test film...
35-PA (aka RP-40) and P35-BT (Buzz track) are camera originals and VERY expensive (low volume and high failure rate)

50 feet of 35-PA is $170.00 from SMPTE ($3.40/foot)

50 feet of P35-BT is $139.00 from SMPTE ($2.78/foot)

I can therefore understand not sending out the film willy nilly. Also there is a service life to the film and once it changes dimensionally, no longer is valid.

Steve

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Scott Ribbens
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 118
From: Los Angeles
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-30-1999 03:02 AM      Profile for Scott Ribbens   Email Scott Ribbens   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just thought I'd chime in on the green band thing. It is a legal thing, it shows that the preview is approved for ALL audiances. Remember that there are some red band trailers out there (approved for restricted audiances only, as if have have to tell you people out there what a red band is ).

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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 10-30-1999 03:28 AM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's not a legal thing, as the raitings aren't mandated by the government (in the U.S.)

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-30-1999 04:01 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, Jim's right. A theater can't be fined for cutting off the green bands, but I always leave them on anyway for


  • The identification
  • The sound advance
  • To show off how clean my prints are

I do know some chains have a policy including AMC and Cinemark for cutting them off.

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Scott Shepard
Film Handler

Posts: 8
From: Los Angeles, California, usa
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-31-1999 10:26 PM      Profile for Scott Shepard     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would like to add my 2 cents worth about the green band fiasco. Some years back as a theatre projectionist I saw the AMC theatre in the area cut off their green bands on their trailers. I thought it helped with the continuity of the program. After a while some other operators I knew thought it was a great idea also. They started doing it too. Sometime later the MPAA sent out a letter stating that the green bands were to be left on. In California, things are watched a little bit closer then in other parts of the country.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-02-1999 11:02 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I thought somebody might object to screening in stereo vs. digital.

For the most part, I agree with you. How the heck can you screen the print 3 or 4 times? My rationale is this...

1) If you know that your SR track is good, you can always fall back to it if your digital track(s) are bad or if your SDDS goes wonky. If your SR track is bad too, you're pretty much screwed. (This has happened to me!)

2) If your theatre doesn't have digital in every house, like mine, you could play the movie in digital for a month before it moves to a non-digital house. It won't be until some busy Friday when it gets noticed. Then you'll be up to your armpits in complaints like, "Don't you PRE-SCREEN your movies?! (This has also happened to me!)

The logic I use is that your SR track is your lowest common denominator or your 'fall back' option. If for some reason you need it and it's not useable, you're outta' luck. I find VERY few problems with digital tracks. Chances are that it's your player (SDDS) that's bad! However, I find that more and more SR tracks are bad.

...That's why I try to screen in stereo

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