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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Losing level with high-brighness l.e.d.'s (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Losing level with high-brighness l.e.d.'s
Bill Purdy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 11-01-1999 05:20 PM      Profile for Bill Purdy   Author's Homepage   Email Bill Purdy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The problem is that we want to switch the LEDs on before we are listening to them. If you tie them to a douser command it probably is the same command that is calling for your film sound. That was OK for the old sluggish tungsten filament lamps, but you sure can't get away with it with the LED. So, you need to fire them up at about the same time you start the motor so that they will be well stabilized seven seconds later when the douser opens. The need is the same whether you are switching the DC to the LED of the AC to the power supply. This is very important for the digital because it needs to know that there is signal there. (I have noted your dislike of basement readers, but we can argue that some other time.)

While I too deplore the practice of "bumping" the film down, most of those who do it do so with the manual motor switch whereas the LED supply can be switched by the automation's motor relay. I recognize that this isn't all neat and tidy (how do you turn the LEDs on for servicing?), but you can definitely improve the life of those rascals.

The other way to look at it is that if you take the cost of your entire sound system and derive the percentage for the cost of a replacement LED, it will probably turn out to be a most infinitesimal number. But, remembering that it is the source of all that sonic magnificance without which the rest of the system is meaningless, just replace the thing every couple of years....but watch it regularly.

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Bill Purdy
Comonent Engineering

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-01-1999 05:41 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry if this sounds dumb, but what's wrong with "inching" the projector motor? I would usually thread up around "Picture Start" (which is usually the earliest point on the leader that has visible framelines) and then run the motor for a second or so to get down to some point between "9" and "8" (where I like to have the film threaded for changeovers). The only reason that I can think of right now that this might be bad is the issue of takeup tension and the possibility of film breakage (with acetate base film) that results from quick stops and starts; it's probably also not good for platter systems. Is this the only bad thing about "inching" the film with the motor switch, or is there some other reason not to do it?

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Rick Long
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 759
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 11-01-1999 05:57 PM      Profile for Rick Long   Email Rick Long   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The problem I see with switching the l.e.d. power supply on with the automation relay is how do we run manually if we have to?

Of course, we could use one of the unused switches on the rear of the automation apron for this, but it means one more switch for the new trainees to remember.

The biggest problem with inching the motor on and off with the motor switch is that motors draw much more current to get from a stopped position to a running position than it does to keep it running. This practice is particularly hard on the motor and the switch (not to mention the projector's gear train which gets to "slap" against both surfaces of every gear tooth).

In most automations, the motor manual switch is rated for very occassional use (technicians screwing around, or emergency non-automation purposes). They are not designed to carry the high motor-starting current day, after day.

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Jim Ziegler
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 753
From: West Hollywood, CA
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 11-02-1999 12:35 AM      Profile for Jim Ziegler   Email Jim Ziegler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In regards to SRD's, is it possible to test the video voltage with a multitester? (some of us don't have access to scopes)...

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-02-1999 04:58 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott, inching is bad for the gears...all that stopping and starting, ya know.

To Bill, I have a Kelmar analog reverse scan installed in my private screening room. (I was told that the CE unit wouldn't fit properly in a Century JJ with the 70mm bypass path.) Anyway...to the point. I have my power supply relayed to power up on a separate relay in sync with the douser. Of course I can switch it on for manual operation, but I almost always use the automation. Anyway, I've never had a thump or anything in the sound. It is perfectly smooth, as if the led was on all the time. Is this a CE thing or something in my particular setup?

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Bill Purdy
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Seattle, WA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 11-08-1999 04:29 PM      Profile for Bill Purdy   Author's Homepage   Email Bill Purdy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, Sorry for the delay in responding, but I have been out of pocket. As to your non-thumping Kelmar reader, good for you. I have never played with one of Kelmar's units, so I am not at all familiar with their power supply and have no idea why it behaves this way. In all honesty, this was not a consideration when our power supply was designed. We were much more concerned with reliability, LED protection, noise level, and servicing ease....to say nothing about the issues of electrical approvals in the US, Canada and the European Union. Also, there are really very few installations left which use any form of exciter lamp switching. Ever since the days of CP-100's and CP-50's all source switching has been done by the cinema processor and it has been easy to control the exciter LED in the background.

The answer to your JJ question is in two parts. If one is thinking in terms of analog conversion only, there is no problem. You remove the original exciter lamp bracket, the slit lens and the photo cell bracket. The new lens/pre-amp assembly slips into the original slit lens mount and the new LED assembly fits right where the old cell bracket was. If you are doing the complete conversion including SRD, however, then things change. It has always been a basic concept that our readers can be installed without drilling or tapping any holes or otherwise cutting any metal. In order to avoid having to cut into the bulkhead isolating the exciter lamp housing, we had to drop the digital reader down farther and so were trying to read the digital track too close to where the film was leaving the sound drum. More wrap was needed around the drum. Well, as long as we are going to make this change lets go ahead a make a few more improvements to what has always been the weak part of the Century head. This meant that we had to sacrifice the 70mm bypass skid and roller. We felt the trade-off was worth it as Ballantyne was already cutting a hole in the front of the picture heads and bypassing the whole sound head, and while we didn't like it, this could easily be done in the field. Most people, however, have decided to just abandon 70mm. In any event, our new pieces sure improve on Century's original design. These pieces plus a good VKF sprocket and a change in bearing loading render this a really good sound head.


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Bill Purdy
Comonent Engineering

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