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This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5 
 
Author Topic: 3-D projection
John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-19-2001 10:50 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Best 3D I've seen was at the IMAX Dome (aka "Solido") Fujitsu theatre in Chiba Japan in 1991. Production was "Echoes of the Sun":
http://www.imax.com/films/distribution/echoes_of_sun.html

Two-strip IMAX 3D film projected on a domed screen with the PSE LCD glasses. The 3D image literally surrounded you, as you could turn your head to view a wrap-around 3D image.

AFAIK, "Race for Atlantis" at Caesars World in Las Vegas is shown using a similar process, but is CGI rather than live action:
http://www.imax.com/raceforatlantis/tech.html

Even on a flat screen, IMAX 3D is very impressive if done correctly.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Mark Lensenmayer
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1605
From: Upper Arlington, OH
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 07-19-2001 05:17 PM      Profile for Mark Lensenmayer   Email Mark Lensenmayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree, John, that 3-D IMAX at its best is breathtaking. The Pet Shop Boys section of CYBERWORLD was wonderful, but my favorite by far is the hanging paint blobs in PAINT MISBEHAVIN'. I've never yet seen that without most of the audience reaching out for the blobs.

I'm hoping to see JOURNEY OF MAN next week, which I've heard is very good also.

Looks like many of the commercial IMAX houses are playing 35mm this summer...too bad there's not enough exciting large format product out there. BUT, that's another topic.

Mark Lensenmayer

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Dave Macaulay
Film God

Posts: 2321
From: Toronto, Canada
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 07-19-2001 05:24 PM      Profile for Dave Macaulay   Email Dave Macaulay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The 3 Stooges made 2 (at least) 3-D shorts:
"Spooks" (easily the worst looking bats in the history of film) with the usual stoogey haunted house gags.
and "Pardon My Backfire" featuring a screwdriver thrown at the camera riding on clearly visible wires. This one is a garage story, and you get to see Moe's inevitable faceful of soot from a backfiring exhaust from his POV.

John: Thanks for reminding me of Echoes of the Sun - many a nasty night spent in the Fujitsu projection room trying to keep those @*&%!! loop cabinets going... 20 minutes of IMAX film is a LOT to thread through hundreds of rollers.
The best show at Expo90 (IMO) was the Electric pavilion and the ride through a mirrored room lit by about a million tiny lights synchronised to music. No film though....

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James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-17-2001 03:56 AM      Profile for James R. Hammonds, Jr   Email James R. Hammonds, Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I just dug up my old viewmaster from my drawer and was looking at Michael Jacksons THRILLER and I noticed that there were some scratches on it, but they only showed up as scratches.
Would this happen the same way if an actual 3D movie got scratched, or would it completely take away the 3Dness?
Im sure it would ruin the presentation just as and other scratched print.
If the line faded from black to green to yellow and back again, would it move in and out of the screen?
Has anyone ever seen a scratched 3D print?

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1869
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001


 - posted 12-17-2001 11:54 AM      Profile for Mitchell Dvoskin   Email Mitchell Dvoskin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have been lucky to recently see a great many of the classic 1950's 3D film in there original 2 projector polarized format, and I have to say that the process is stunning, and it improved every film I have seen this way.

Just some observations:

Keeping the projectors in sync, whether by physically locking the moters together, or electronical with selsin moters, is not a problem. The problems arise when the left and right eye prints are threaded out of sync, or spliced out of sync. Think about it, if you have a film break on 1 print, and take out a few frames to fix, you have to find the exact location (to the frame) on the other print, and remove the same. If not, it causes eye strain. Also, when you thread the projectors, no only must you thread both prints starting at the exact same point, but you need to make sure the shutter on the 2 projectors is at the exact same point. If not, again eye strain.

Many of these films were later re-issued on single strip 3d, either over under or side by side. Neither is as sharp or clear as dual strip. Then even worse, since polarized 3D requires a silver screen, many were later converted to anaglyph (red/cyan) which is headache inducing, but can be projected onto any screen.

3D done right is fantastic.

/Mitchell

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 12-17-2001 12:23 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scratches or dirt on one "eye" of a 3D print will be visible, and detract from the presentation. But they won't "take away from the 3Dness". Careful attention must be paid to proper syncronization and alignment of the two images. Polarized 3D systems are not very light efficient, so smaller formats (e.g., single strip 35mm prints with both "eyes" printed next to each other) often struggle to get adequate screen luminance on bigger screens.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 12-17-2001 04:25 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Another one for the title list: The Bubble Not a great film; single strip over-and-under.

Setting the correct inter-occular distance is important too, too little and you kill the 3D effect, too much and you get great eye strain by causing peoples' eyes to go wall-eyed.
Ugh, it hurts just thinking about it.

Paul

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 12-18-2001 04:53 PM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Stewardesses has its' own unique take on 3D too. The print was about 50-50 faded pink and normal but the crowd liked it anyway. Too bad original unedited prints are not available. We got excellent prints of House of Wax and Dial M from W.B.

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Don Sneed
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Texas City, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 12-18-2001 06:10 PM      Profile for Don Sneed   Author's Homepage   Email Don Sneed   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Back when I was a projectionist in the early 70's in Galveston Texas we ran a now soft cord X rated 3D film called "Love In 3D", whoooaaa weeee as an 17 year old projectionist this was hard core to me !! :eek we ran that print on 6,000 foot reels on two projectors in sync with carbon lamps, a third projector was set up for the sound only in sync with the other two....at that time the special effects was ahsome, the booth view port was a special pane that we did not have to wear glasses, of course I stay at that window...(checking focus of course!!)

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Peter Kerchinsky
Master Film Handler

Posts: 326
From: Seattle, WA, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 01-13-2002 04:18 AM      Profile for Peter Kerchinsky   Email Peter Kerchinsky   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've just come on-line with this service and noticed this discussion regarding 3D films and found it all very interesting.
I had a single screen theatre just outside Portland, OR. Sometime ago. We installed a silver screen when the single-strip 3D films starting hitting the market. Ran a few and found the whole system, using that Stereovision lens, was really bad.
I finally got fed up with that system and installed selsyn motors, got the poloarized filters and lots of the Polaroid 3D glasses and set up an entire festival using the original 3D process.
Some of the prints we ran were CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON, IT CAME FROM OUTER SPACE, DIAL M FOR MURDER, CHARGE AT FEATHER RIVER,
MAN IN THE DARK, MAD MAGICIAN, FORT TI, THE MAZE (incredible 3D effects) and those two Stooges shorts SPOOKS and PARDON MY BACKFIRE.
I was surprised the studios still had these prints at the time. We tried to get a few from FOX, but they would not let them go.
I found the audience response today was much different than when I first saw them back in the 50s. Obviously then all studios were pushing the new wide screen processes, which of course, you could see without glasses.


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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 01-13-2002 01:10 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I always thought that well done 3D (two projectors, properly set up, etc.) look good, and could be used for some films.. ie: just like a director decides to shoot 1.85 or scope, he could choose 3D. It is a bit "gimmick-ly" and shouldn't be used as a replacement for a good story, but some films might have been more fun if shot 3D.

I'm sure many people thought stereo films and widescreen were just a gimmic at the time. I think it was exhibitors trying to get away with cheap 3D installs that kill 3D. You just can't be cheap with 3D.

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James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-13-2002 02:36 PM      Profile for James R. Hammonds, Jr   Email James R. Hammonds, Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How come they dont release videotapes and DVDs of 3D movies in 3D?
Id love to have that.

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 01-13-2002 03:15 PM      Profile for Jeffry L. Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Jeffry L. Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
3DTV Video Catalog

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Paul Mayer
Oh get out of it Melvin, before it pulls you under!

Posts: 3836
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 01-13-2002 03:31 PM      Profile for Paul Mayer   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Mayer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Actually it's been done. There are several anaglyphic titles out on video now though I can't remember any titles. One of them is a swimsuit video though...

There were also 3D titles put out that used synchronized LCD shutter glasses ala IMAX. These used the alternating video fields to display the L & R images. The system gave full color images but at half vertical resolution.

Then there's those 3D rollercoaster videos and DVDs that use the principle of delaying the light entering one eye through the use of glasses with plano lenses of differing thickness. I've not seen these myself but various reviews I've read indicate that this 3D process is inconsistent at best--basically it works only on moving images with static images literally falling flat.

Cheers!

Paul
Unemployed mercenary film/video projectionist
"Otaku wa tsurai yo." <-- Yeah I know. Bad Japanese pun. Sue me.
It's tough being a fan.

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Don Sneed
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Texas City, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 01-13-2002 03:33 PM      Profile for Don Sneed   Author's Homepage   Email Don Sneed   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I was a projectionist in the 70's, the worst 3D I ever shown & saw was with the cheep green & red glasses,can't remember the films but the effects was awful !! I saw the movie better without the glasses than with !!

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