Film-Tech Cinema Systems
Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE


  
my profile | my password | search | faq & rules | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » R-40 Target Film (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: R-40 Target Film
John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-14-2000 01:48 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John Walsh:

I agree that it would be great to have less expensive test films. The dilemma is how much accuracy should be sacrificed for price. Both the Schneider/THX and SMPTE 35-PA (RP40) test films are produced on a step printer using registration pins, to assure optimum steadiness and accurate image positioning. At most, these printers run a few frames per second, so production costs are high.

The $495 cost for a 200-foot roll of SMPTE 35-PA may seem high. But with reasonable care, that ESTAR-base test film can be used hundreds of times before it wears out. So certifying the projection performance of a theatre costs less than the price of a single ticket to that theatre.

Likewise, the cost of a quality Screen Luminance Meter is pro-rated over thousands of uses. Screen luminance and uniformity should be checked on a regular basis, and certainly after anything (e.g., xenon lamp alignment and focus, reflector cleaning, etc.) is changed. Look at it this way: without a meter, you might accidently "hot spot" and cause permanent heat damage to a print that costs more than the meter.

Just as you wouldn't want a back-yard mechanic to diagnose your modern automobile's emission system without the proper tools, it is "penny wise and pound foolish" to run a theatre complex without the proper tools to evaluate projection quality.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

 |  IP: Logged

Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-14-2000 02:28 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
YES! <applauding> VERY well put, John!!!

I could see a use for regular rolls of a "centering" target pattern, but for any serious work, it is my opinion the PA35 should be used.

I make all of my loops between 8 and 10 feet and carefully loop them over the upper magazine feed roller and take care in orienting it so that it doesn't get scratched. I find they last significantly longer than just making loops barely large enough to do the job and letting them slap all over the projector and scrape along things. I also make ultrasonic splices to form the loop and that helps to keep the wear and breakage possibility down. (If only theaters would purchase those ultrasonics as a standard item!)

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-14-2000 03:32 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad:

Thanks . I think all of us on the Film Handler's Forum agree on the importance of having the right tools and equipment. The challenge is convincing the non-technical people who sign the checks of the need.

Your use of an ultrasonic splicer is a good example of how having the best tool for the job can improve quality. As functional and good as tape splices are, they do stretch, bend, get sticky, discolor, get dirty, etc. with age.

As you already know, a properly-made polyester splice on an ultrasonic splicer is almost indestructable, and very reliable. I would hope that larger theatre complexes or anyone really concerned with quality presentation might be able to convince management that $3200 is a good investment. (One possible line: "You'll never have to buy any splicing tape" ).

For those who have never seen or used an ultrasonic splicer, here is a link to Metric Splicer, Inc., one of the primary manufacturers:
http://www.metricsplicer.com

The particular model for motion picture use is the Model 3001:
http://www.metricsplicer.com/3001/html

A competing ultrasonic splicer has just been introduced by Hollywood Film Company:
http://www.hollywoodfilmco.com/Splicer.htm

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-14-2000 03:41 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oops! The correct link for the Metric Model 3001 ultrasonic splicer is:
http://www.metricsplicer.com/3001.html

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

 |  IP: Logged

John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 02-14-2000 07:36 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh, don't get me wrong: I want good quality test materials, too. It's just that owners will not buy them, regardless of how the cost could be justified.

The chain I work for now is nowhere near "cheap" (the last 80 screens we built from scratch were all bi-amped with CP65's or CP500's and about 70% are digital.) I mean, I'm sure there are better, but I think that's pretty good for a small chain.

Yet, they would never approve $3200 for a splicer, or even $1300 for a meter, and I think most other chains would do the same. How many theaters has anyone been to with their own meter or an ultrasonic splicer? For me (in 25 years) it's 1 and 0! Usually owners will say: the tech guy brings his meter, we will use his. (Then, of course, they try to never call him!) I admit, I have seen loops of the (B&W) RP40 around.

But, I understand the reluctance to manufacture lower quality test materials: The potental for abuse is high. People will buy the "cheap" test film then use it as a reference standard- all kinds of weirdness could result.

That's why I thought the chart on it would be simple, like that older SMPTE test film with just rectangles on it (RP 110-1983.) Only with a checkerboard pattern on it so it doesn't get too hot. Maybe a simple anamorphic test, shutter ghosting, etc. Good enough for checking the scope lens, shutter ghosting, centering the framing knob, masking, basic projector positioning and tilt, and an "image cropped or not" test.

It would not be meant for focus/resolution, lamp alignment, lens aberrations and jitter/weave. These are not tests done routinely. There would not be any patterns that could be used for these purposes, to prevent misuse.

Now, I'll annoy everyone just a little longer, then I'll shaddup; I promise!

I think the 35PA is "overkill." I mean, it's not just accurate; every frame is almost a work of art. And, you'd want that for critical testing on projectors or printers. But, for 90% of users, a cheaper test film would do. IMHO.

OK, I'm done. Please don't flame me, or let the air out of my tires.......

 |  IP: Logged

John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 02-15-2000 07:38 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John:

The SMPTE did once have a "35mm Visual Test Film for Theater Use". The 35-VT film was 450 feet long, printed on color stock, and could be used for simple checks of image size, steadiness, sharpness, etc. It was printed on a continuous contact printer, and was NOT intended for critical alignment. It was similar in concept to the P16-PP-C "Jiffy 16mm Projection Evaluation Film". The 35mm film was not a big seller, and when the negative wore out, SMPTE decided to discontinue making the film, rather than produce a new negative.

There will be a meeting of the SMPTE Theatrical Projection Technology Committee at ShoWest in March. You are welcome to ask the Committee to consider developing a new 35mm subjective test film. The current chairman is Bobby Pinkston of Dolby: bwp@dolby.com

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Professional Motion Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

 |  IP: Logged

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-15-2000 08:29 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I _like_ the 16mm "Jiffy Test" film! I got one for $10 a couple of years ago and have used it countless times. Sure, it's not a precision test film, but it's great for matching volume levels for two projectors and EQ'ing an unfamiliar room/sound system by ear. I wouldn't use it to verify correctness of a permanent theatre installation, but it's great when doing shows with smaller portable equipment.

 |  IP: Logged



All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
   Close Topic    Move Topic    Delete Topic    next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.3.1.2

The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.

© 1999-2020 Film-Tech Cinema Systems, LLC. All rights reserved.