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Author Topic: 35mm Mag
Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 05-01-2000 10:53 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

You might have to wait till later this week.
I only work weekends(granted there's not a track meet), but I'll get those numbers to you .

Thanks

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Bryan Redemske
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Cedar Falls, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 05-02-2000 07:48 AM      Profile for Bryan Redemske   Email Bryan Redemske   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
umm...what's a 35mm mag? i have no clue and probably have never seen one. so, if someone could explain or show me a picture that'd be cool.

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 05-02-2000 08:17 AM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bryan,

Mag is short for magnetic recording. It was the first form of surround sound with all channels discrete on the film. And until recently, it was the only soundtrack on 70mm film. basically, four strips of magnetic tape were glued somehow onto the film. 35mm film can hold 4 tracks of audio, but 70mm can hold 6. I'll try and find a picture for you,

Josh

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-02-2000 08:18 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bryan:

Check out the early history of "Scope", which included 4-track magnetic striped prints, on Marty Hart's "American WideScreen Museum" website:
http://www.simplecom.net/widefilm/widescreen/wingcs1.htm
http://www.simplecom.net/widefilm/widescreen/cinemascoperef.htm

The main site entry link is:
http://www.simplecom.net/widefilm/

IMHO, Marty's site is one of the most facinating and comprehensive sites about motion picture technology on the web.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Bryan Redemske
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Cedar Falls, IA, USA
Registered: Feb 2000


 - posted 05-02-2000 08:46 AM      Profile for Bryan Redemske   Email Bryan Redemske   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
i see...i read about that in a big Dolby 'history of sound' thing we have at our theatre. i see how it works now though. thanks!

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-02-2000 01:00 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with you on the SMP 435 mag eq. It is very wanting, but for dailies playback of voice they work great and they are very quiet. All the sound mixers that I have worked with love the playback out of them. Don't ask me which Teccon they were designed around?????? Thats what Norm told me though. Also.....they WILL NOT work at all with high impedance heads. The eq does not even get close.
Any comments Gord....you seem to be a big fan of these preamps.
Mark

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-02-2000 04:44 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wouldn't say a great fan but for there price and the limited use they will get they did a very good job. I have a pair of them set up with my Motiographs and have really had no complaints especially considering that there has never been any real eq standards for the older 4 track prints the only Pink noise I ever saw was what was printed for yentl
The smarts were very quiet and had no problem eq'ng for older 50-60's mag prints. They don't eq that well around some of the 70 prints and I have usually put it down to imopedance mismach. The transformers are strappable to change that as I have seen them used on a bunch of MTM dubbers.
Also Ultra Stereo makes a very good mag preamp in both a ten unit version like dolby's and also a single card 4 track for the older CS processors

If money is no object then I would go for the presetable Inovonics units

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Oscar Neundorfer
Master Film Handler

Posts: 275
From: Senoia, GA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 05-02-2000 06:57 PM      Profile for Oscar Neundorfer   Author's Homepage   Email Oscar Neundorfer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello to all,

I just couldn't stand it any longer, so I finally registered on the Film-Tech forum after reading and enjoying it so very much. There is only so much time in a day, and finding time to read, much less respond, is difficult.

I will go out on a limb here and TRY to remember a bit about the SMP435 EQ. As I recall, the original 435 only had 2 eq adjustments, and when Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (I think it was)came out in 70 mag, the eq standards were changed somehow. I don't recall the details. This was back in 1985 I think or somewhere around then. We modified the eq circuits and added a third adjustment.

I recall running pink noise film on Teccon 70 mag heads and we were able to get pretty darn good response for Indiana Jones. I don't recall exactly what the response was, but it seems like it was reasonably flat up to 16kHz or so, maybe plus/minus 2 or 3 db. Not perfect by any stretch, but certainly not bad.

We had this set up at the Belle Meade theatre in Nashville, and it sounded fantastic. Clean, smooth, and quiet!

The old 435's may not have been the best preamps money could buy, but for the price they offered a great value, and we sold a great number of them.

Regarding high Z heads, they were not suitable.

Thanks for letting me join in here!

------------------
Oscar Neundorfer
Chief Engineer
SMART Devices, Inc.

oscar@smartdev.com

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-03-2000 08:57 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Oscar...how the heck are you and welcome to this wonderful site.
I have used them many times on a double system projector that I build and have had poor luck with the LF response. Seems to roll off several db below about 180 hz or so. These units all have the third adjustment but I wonder if the head impedance on the single stripe teccons are way different. I seem to remember them telling me that is was very similar though.
This has not been a problem at all as we only playback voice for the most part.
Any ideas why this would be so different??
Mark

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 05-07-2000 11:21 AM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, here's the numbers i pulled off the preamps: the preamps MI-9362, Powersupply
MI-9519, and the chassis MI-9269.

does someone have the schematics for these?

Josh

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 05-07-2000 12:56 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's old RCA stuff. You will not be able to get any schematics from RCA, that's for sure. I tried in 1980 and even then got nowhere.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-07-2000 01:19 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
With any luck, someone here will have the RCA documentation on these preamps and will hopefully send it to Brad to scan and add to the manuals section. I sent him the Simplex/Altec Magsound Package documentation (circa 1955), which is surprisingly good...

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 07-11-2000 06:26 PM      Profile for Per Hauberg   Author's Homepage   Email Per Hauberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
35 mag - Gosh, that's some days ago, and the prints were not many at this end of the world. A single print of "Patton" mag/opt got my special attention: the 12Khz tone was hearable in auditorium - not only by me, but in all cinemas, i saw it in. -Anyone know, if that was normal a printing failure on that particular one...?

"River Kwai" was here in a 3-track-only mag print (no surround). Was that the normal version, or did it excist in regular 4-track ? -And if, - then why this amputated one ??

-Likewise: Both danish prints of "JCSuperstar" were without surround, -but those 3 remaining tracks sounded damned well.
Anyone tryed the Dolby Stereo reissue prints (late 80'es) of this one - were they any good...??

Last new 35 mag prints in Denmark were 1941, Star Wars 1 and Fantasia reissue, but even before those, i guess we were often cheeted, running mono prints only from films, running elsewhere with great sound. -Wasn't the mag sound quite used in US and Britain, even during the seventies...??

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 07-22-2000 03:35 PM      Profile for Per Hauberg   Author's Homepage   Email Per Hauberg   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
B I G S I G H ! !

I do use both soap and toothpaste, but i'd got to admit, i'd never heard of Film Guard before getting into this great forum, and therefore, i do not use that - yet (!)

Maybe that why i feel, nobody wants to answer my questions on this topic...
Very sad, very alone in the booth, very uninformed

Per

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-22-2000 04:41 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Whether you use a product or not has nothing to do with whether people will answer your questions. If you pose a question and no one has the answer, you will not get a response. I'd answer your questions myself, but I don't know the answers either.

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