|
|
This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5
|
|
Author
|
Topic: SURVEY-7 channel vs. 8 channel
|
|
|
John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
|
posted 12-11-2001 01:02 PM
Joe Redifer asked: "Do 8-channel flat films exist?"Yes. An example is "Stuart Little":
http://www.mel-lambert.com/Writer/Profiles/SS.Stuart_Little.html Had the good fortune to hear it in the Cary Grant theatre on Sony Studio's Culver City CA lot, and the 8-channel mix sounded great. SDDS done right! ------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!
Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999
|
posted 12-11-2001 07:39 PM
Joe, I have termed the speakers just off screen but part of the "stage-channels" Lo and Ro...that is Left-Outside and Right-Outside. They are to be used for off-screen call where we can hear somone (or thing) but we can't see them (or it) but it isn't appropriate to place the sound in the audience (surrounds). My ideal sound system would have seven across the screen area, 5-surround channels. I don't value speakers placed above and below though I would be interested in experimented with ceiling surrounds though I think the implementation for a good system would be impractical. I stand behind that a minimum of 5-screen channels are appropriate for ANY sized screen. It is ideal...if it were the standard, we would have panned dialog today...it places a speaker just about where any actor would be (1-shot Center, 2-Shot LC and RC, 3-shot, LC C and RC; with a group then Left and Right would come into play (for dialog)...Left and Right are so far out that often they are used for just music or effects. If any of you get a chance to hear Sound of Music in 70mm 6-track, you can hear how sound could be...much better than what we have today. Steve ------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
| IP: Logged
|
|
John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
|
posted 12-12-2001 01:07 PM
Gordon McLeod and I have totally agreed in past postings with Steve's comment regarding the excellent Todd-AO 70mm soundtrack for "Sound of Music". I agree that 5 channels behind the screen helps with ANY sized screen. Remember, the audience sits closer to a smaller screen, so they will still appreciate the extra channels in films with an 8-channel mix.Tomlinson Holman (who developed THX at Lucasfilm) has definite views on the advantages of additional channels. He is the founding editor and publisher of "Surround Sound Professional" magazine:
http://www.surroundpro.com And President of TMH Labs:
http://tmhlabs.com ------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
| IP: Logged
|
|
Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001
|
posted 12-12-2001 01:43 PM
Can i ask is it possible to have both, i.e SDDS-9 release.ie 5 front channels and 3 surround channels. For example i believe harry potter is dolby/DTS ex and sdds-8
so could it be shown in SDDS with ex.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
|
posted 12-13-2001 09:49 AM
Joe: AFAIK, if there was a requirement for more channels, DTS wouldn't need to wait for digital cinema to develop the capability, since the sound data is on a separate media.------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler
Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001
|
posted 12-14-2001 05:53 AM
The reason you don't see (or rather, hear) panned dialogue anymore is really quite simple. It all came about with the original Dolby Stereo format with it's matrix system. The matrix provides the best separation for dialogue when it is placed either dead centre or hard left or right. Anywhere in between and the leakage into the surrounds goes up quite significantly. So all mixing engineers quickly realised that all on-screen dialogue had to stay in the centre to maximise separation.With digital, this restriction no longer applies, however two factors (other than production cost) have provided an impediment to the return to the use of panned dialogue. One is that everyone has become used to centre-locked dialogue, particularly mixing engineers. It is easy and it does not draw attention to the soundtrack. Secondly digital soundtracks need to be reasonably compatible with the analogue backup track. It is one thing for the surrounds to maybe collapse to mono on a fall-back reversion, after all, there is not that much stereo surround info in any given film anyway and unless you are sitting dead centre, it is not all that obvious. But can you image how annoying it would be to have the dialogue popping back to centre from some panned position everytime the digital track dropped out? A whole different situation! Regarding EX, we installed a matrix across the surround channels of a DTS player and fed the centre output to rear wall speakers, years before Mr Rydstrom "invented" the EX process. At that time we discovered an interesting phenonemon. A person's ability to differentiate direction is greatly degraded when a sound is coming from directly behind, particularly in a reverberant field like an auditorium. Sounds from directly behind tend to become confused with sounds directly from the front. So if you sit in the sweet spot (centre) in an EX equipped room, the rear wall EX channel seems to have very little impact. Move over to one side of the auditorium and it becomes a lot more dramatic. This is because our ears are aligned in such a way as to maximise our ability to pinpoint the source of a sound in the direction that we are looking. So by experiment, we found that we had to increase the level of the rear wall at least 3dB above the technically correct level for the "EX" channel to work for people sitting mid-way between left and right walls. It is not surprising therefore that some people report a more dramatic effect from sounds panned across their field of view (screen channels)than for sounds that originate from behind. ------------------
Ray Derrick
President
Panalogic Corporation Pty Limited
44 Carrington Road
Castle Hill NSW 2154 Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
All times are Central (GMT -6:00)
|
This topic comprises 5 pages: 1 2 3 4 5
|
Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM
6.3.1.2
The Film-Tech Forums are designed for various members related to the cinema industry to express their opinions, viewpoints and testimonials on various products, services and events based upon speculation, personal knowledge and factual information through use, therefore all views represented here allow no liability upon the publishers of this web site and the owners of said views assume no liability for any ill will resulting from these postings. The posts made here are for educational as well as entertainment purposes and as such anyone viewing this portion of the website must accept these views as statements of the author of that opinion
and agrees to release the authors from any and all liability.
|
Home
Anyway sarcasm is fun, just as long as its accompanied by a 
Just watch out all you kittys - that could be you.
Printer-friendly view of this topic