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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Hello Joe What Da Ya Know? (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Hello Joe What Da Ya Know?
John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

- posted 05-09-2000 09:52 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
IHF is: Institute of High Fidelity. They were/are an industry trade group that tried to change the way audio equipment was measured.

They have a couple of different standards, and one of them was for testing audio amplifiers. They claimed to use a sort of "real-world" testing methology.

But, in my opinion, it was just a way to make amp manufacturers wattage numbers look higher. For example, if you wouldn't join IHF, you would rate your amp in RMS and get, say, 100 watts. The same amp rated under IHF would be, like 130 watts. So on the front page of an advertising brochure, one manufacturer would put 100 watt, another 130 watt. A dumb consumer wouldn't likely read the fine print, and buy the 130 watt unit. The term "IHF" was a registered trademark, so you couldn't do it yourself.

Funny...right while I'm typing this, I'm thinking of THX also....

Well, maybe I shouldn't be so hard... there is some method to IHF but, people had been using RMS ever since a tube was invented. IHF wasn't any improvement, so why use it. I looked at Amazon for their standards book and see it's out of print, so maybe they went totally away...

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

- posted 05-09-2000 10:07 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark:

One thing I wanted to do was compare projector sound heads. I wanted to compare the wow and flutter on a soundhead where there is no tension on the film at the sound drum (like a AA-2 or a Cinemecannica) with a tensioned type (like a Century or a Simplex.)

Did you ever try anything like that? Do you think one would be better, or both be about the same?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 05-09-2000 11:32 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Mark. I'll need to know what equipment you have access to, unless you want to fly out and do measurements everytime I review a sound processor. Do you have access to a Dolby CP650? Just kidding. Nobody does (yet).

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 05-10-2000 12:11 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was thinking that as well as making life a lot easier in "my" booth, we could also use it to transport prints to the dollar house. At least that's what I was planning on using as a second reason to justify the expense. A shipping case would be a bonus in that department. (Depending on the cost)

Typically, the guys from the dollar house just bring a set of clamps, clamp it up and put it in the trunk of their car. It's not pretty but it beats breaking it down just to rebuild it 30 minutes later. I was just wondering if it was possible to 'play' the print onto the reel, screw it back together and THEN put it into the car. It would have a lot more protection that way. A shipping case would give even MORE protection.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

- posted 05-10-2000 12:19 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, the original design allows you to takeup a print onto the reel as well as pop it apart and play it directly from the flange. We simply figured out a way to purchase one reel and build up ALL of our prints on Thursday nights (since "some" certain depot won't send prints in on Wednesdays to give us proper time).

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 05-10-2000 08:55 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yea Joe,
I do have an HP distortion analyzer and Millivolt meter if you ever want me to make any measurements for you.
Mark

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 05-10-2000 02:12 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So...how does the wow and flutter on, say, a Century (which has tension rollers on the sound drum) with that on, say, a Cinemeccanica V5 (which doesn't)? I'd be very interested in knowing what (if any) difference exists. One would tend to think that the Centurys would be better, but I've heard some pretty great sound on the Cinemeccanicas, too (tho the A-chain alignment looks like it would be a lot harder).

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George Roher
Master Film Handler

Posts: 266
From: Washington DC
Registered: Jul 99

- posted 05-10-2000 03:14 PM      Profile for George Roher   Email George Roher   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You can absolutely take up the show on a Goldberg platter reel. It's the best and safest way to move prints. And I think Joe's review was right on the money. Every platter house should have one (I'd say several) of those things. I wish I still had them. I had four of them at an art house I used to run, and they allowed us to run festivals and have a ton of print activity without over extending ourselves.

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Jason Burroughs
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 654
From: Allen, TX
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 05-10-2000 03:55 PM      Profile for Jason Burroughs   Email Jason Burroughs   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey Brad, remember those disks that Atchley had at the Prestonwood? I've not seen anything like them since, but they sure made moving prints a lot easier, and since they were so large you could fit a LONG move on to them. Have any idea where he got them?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 05-10-2000 04:19 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark-

I meant what kind of equipment do you have acces to in terms of something I might review? Obviously you have access to the Ultra. But what other sound processors/amps/etc...? What if I were to review the new Dolby CP650?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 05-10-2000 05:26 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe,
When we sell a new booth, or booths to a theater is the time to do it. That means that it is an unsolicited review as well which means that you will get an as built piece of gear off the line. If you solicit for gear it is sometimes a selected or tweaked piece. That kinda review is meaningless. We have some projects comming up in the near future. I'll let you know what is comming up soon. Below is a list of manufacturers we are dealers for that make products you might be into looking at........
Dolby
Ultra
Smart
CFS
JBL
EV
Christie
Strong
Seating Concepts
Component Engineering
Crown
QSC
BGW Systems
Big Sky
Gentner
Wolk
Kelmar
Neumade
Osram
Ushio
SPECO
SONY
Let me know if something comes up that you want to review. It never hurts to ask, and we can usually get a demo piece of whatever for a while.
Mark



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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 05-10-2000 05:44 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott,
Its been a couple of years since I was on that W&F endeavor but as far as I can remember Simplex and RCA werre pretty much the same at .15 to .19%. Centurys were at about .12 to .15%, Norelco FP-20 was .09, Kalee 21's were .07 which I believe is near the residual in the SMPTE test film. I did measure alot of Christie P35GP's and they varied alot. My old Christie P35 is also around .09%. I did not measure an AA-2 or any Shakeameccaniccas at that time. All the measured machines were tweaked to this lowest point running fresh 6 foot loops of acetate SMPTE wow and flutter film and adjusting dancer arm tension where applicable for best readings(this adjustment does not make a huge difference!). All reproducers were checked after running for 2 hours to reach operating temp and all had been rebuilt or overhauled with new bearings.
Mark


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

- posted 05-11-2000 09:13 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I also have a Leader Wow and Flutter meter and also a Nakamchi test set that does it as well. As far as signal to noise ratio THX specs 300mv as the output of the processor to the input of the crossover at 50% modulation IE the pinknoise generator card. This was based I believe on the Dolby standard reference level. A lot of other manufacturers base there output on .707v= reference level.
I usually find that if the outputs of all the processor channels is left set at 300mv then the spl's set on the ampsgains the system is about as quiet as it can get. THis does require a bit of knowledge about the correct sizing of the amps in respect to there input gain structure.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999

- posted 05-11-2000 10:36 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Checking the S/N on theater processors would be interesting (I think, anyway.) For example, while a CP200 is very flexible design and I love it for that, I thought the audio signals were routed very poorly. The worst area were on the backplane and up/down the ribbon cables.

And I feel that many processors' audio signals are routed poorly (not shielded, run next to noisy signals like relay power, etc.)

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

- posted 05-11-2000 02:26 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You're right John. I personally don't feel that there has been any "audiophile" calibur sound processors yet. Any manufacturer want to prove me wrong? I would welcome it.


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