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Author Topic: Vinegar Syndrome
Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 05-29-2000 02:04 PM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I, too have a stinking 16mm IB print rotting in the garage, too. The base has shrunk so much that the image is breaking away and falling off of it.

As for processing, I know the histories of some of my films. Most were bought between 1972-1986.

I have films from WRS lab that look OK and are not stinking.

I just sold a feature from 1977 that had turned brown that Movielab in NYC did. It was not stinky either.

Foto-Kem prints are OK smelling, and have fair color.

DeLuxe prints are red and smelly. I chucked several about 3 months ago.

MGM Labs prints generally turn brownish colored. No vinegar yet. I have a 1971 35mm print by MGM that still looks nice, though slightly discolored, and no smell.

I only mentioned these labs because the prints I bought were brand new at the time.

The TV companies used to treat their prints with something that was so strong that it would bleach the ink off of the labels. Some of my IB prints were treated, and one is beginning to smell. My 35mm IB stuff is untreated and has no smell.

I have a Technicolor lab print of a 1983 LPP feature that is reeking from vinegar. I try to run it regularly.
It came from a depot in Dallas and my guess is that it was a hothouse.

Does anybody reading this know if Anscocolor eventually fades? I have a 1947 print of a 1935 cartoon on Ansco stock. The color is beautiful even compared to a print I saw recently on Cartoon Network.

Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 07-16-2000 02:49 PM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've shown several German Agfacolor diacetate prints from the early 40s, and also thought that the colour dyes had survived remarkably well. The base hadn't, though - it had shrunk a lot (more than I would have expected a nitrate print that has lasted well of a similar vintage to have done)


I believe Anscocolor was simply the Agfacolor dye-coupling process renamed when it was used in the US after the War.

Leo

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Martin Frandsen
Master Film Handler

Posts: 270
From: Denmark, Europe
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-16-2000 03:50 PM      Profile for Martin Frandsen   Email Martin Frandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
How can someone tell if an IB-tech print has been treated?

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It's the new small talk. You do it so awfully well! - My Fair Lady

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Bob Leader
Film Handler

Posts: 1

Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-16-2000 04:13 PM      Profile for Bob Leader   Email Bob Leader   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think that all Acetate film will eventually breakdown and become infected with "vinegar syndrome". Only by keeping it in a cool and humidity controlled enviroment- can we hope to lessen it's decline.
In 30 years of collecting, I have seen some real tragedies. I have examined about a dozen prints over the years ,but I have never seen a 35mm IB Tech/4-track magnetic "OKLAHOMA" that wasn't infected in some way by vinegar syndrome. They must have all been stored and then scratch removed before a rerelease.
I once picked up a like-lab-new 35mm IB Tech/4-track magnetic "OKLAHOMA" that was as new as the day it was made. It only had the original A and B splices in it. But having been scratch removed - it smelled so strongly of vinegar- that I couldn't store it anywhere around other film prints. It had to sit out in the garage - where it actually rusted some tools near it!
Disney treated so many of it's 35mm prints that trying to find untreated IB Tech prints of Snow White, and especially Dumbo is next to impossible.
I would agree that keeping vinegared films completely away from other films is very important. I have seen how just one vinegared reel of film can affect the other reels of a film print.
I have had some vinegared prints sitting in the open air for some 20 years now - and they still run well. I have had a few vinegared films in cans - and they hardly lasted a few years.


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 07-17-2000 09:12 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Kodak web site has several articles regarding film storage and "vinegar syndrome":
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/technical/molecular.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/technical/vinegar.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/about/environment/mole.shtml
http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/motion/support/technical/storage2.shtml

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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