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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » EX? Sorry, not with this title... (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: EX? Sorry, not with this title...
Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-12-2000 06:23 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes there is short term hearing loss and mixers are now being limited to shorter shifts because of that

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Dustin Mitchell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1865
From: Mondovi, WI, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 06-12-2000 06:33 PM      Profile for Dustin Mitchell   Email Dustin Mitchell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I know very little about sound, but apparently I should know about this-what is EX exactly?

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Russ Kress
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 202
From: Charleston, WV, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-12-2000 06:46 PM      Profile for Russ Kress   Author's Homepage   Email Russ Kress   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Surround EX uses pretty much the same technique that decodes left, center and right in analog stage channels to derive a third "center surround" channel in split surround applications.

Leaving the EX feature enabled during a non-EX performance would send any surround information existing in both channels to the center surround channel leaving the side walls quiet. This is where the argument to leave it on originated from.

I must admit, after installing and aligning four of them, it sure would be nice to actually turn them on once in awhile. "Mission To Mars" is gone and "Gladiator" leaves Thursday.

Hey Hollywood!!! Throw us a frickin' bone here will ya? *Dr. Evil impersonation*

Russ

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-03-2000 06:23 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What a waste of money! Here we have another BIG movie that would really benefit from EX use...Gone In 60 Seconds, but no...

Dear Hollywood producers, a lot of us forked out money for this system because it was going to make the cinema going experience soooooooo much better. Well? Where are all the EX soundtracks then? You've got it at your disposal, use the bloody thing, will ya?
So far you can just about count the titles utilizing this process on two hands and it's been out for over 12 months!

As Russ said...Hey Hollywood!!! Throw us a frickin' bone here will ya?

Well put.

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-03-2000 12:52 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Although EX can sound pretty damn cool in the hands of a master (Gray Rydstrom in Toy Story 2), it is otherwise a big doorstop lately. I just wish Gary would do more EX mixes, and that he would take all the time he needs to make them sound good.

Curiously, Gary mixed the sound to "Rules of Engagement". No EX. If I were Gary, it would be in my contract that every movie I mix MUST be in EX --- That way the format I worked so hard to have created wouldn't be looked upon as a joke.

Perhaps Hollywood didn't think that exhibitors were losing enough money at the time EX was created. After all, we ALL are extremely well off currently, right? We can all afford to spend tons of money on a box that won't be used very much and doen't offer much of a benefit unless you are playing Toy Story 2.

Funny that the movie that it was designed for, Star Wars Ep 1, didn't utilize it well and the studio ripped the theatres off with contracts and high percentage returns on box office receipts. Way to go!


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Mathias Andersson
Film Handler

Posts: 26
From: Sweden
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 07-03-2000 02:11 PM      Profile for Mathias Andersson   Email Mathias Andersson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You guys say that MI2 is not encoded in Surround EX, but it is encoded in DTS-ES. If you believe the movielist on www.dtsonline.com. Could anyone verify that on a DTS disc?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-03-2000 03:42 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
That is a typo. Neither the discs state "ES" nor does the ES unit pulse itself into ES, which is automatic on DTS's ES (EX) unit.

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Dave Cutler
Master Film Handler

Posts: 277
From: Centennial, CO
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 07-03-2000 04:36 PM      Profile for Dave Cutler   Email Dave Cutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Russ wrote:

"Leaving the EX feature enabled during a non-EX performance would send any surround information existing in both channels to the center surround channel leaving the side walls quiet. This is where the argument to leave it on originated from."

This shouldn't leave the side walls completly silent. All EX is, is a home pro-logic circuit, literally. That information that is in BOTH channels would go to the center surround, but information that is in only one or the other would go to the side walls. Many Non-EX mixes sound BETTER in EX. ie "Deep Impact" sounds incredible in EX mode.

Also Gray Rydstrom did an incredible job on "Rules of Engagement" without using EX. If not run in EX mode, you almost get a 'phantom' EX channel, which sounded incredible.

I agree that after theatres bought all these EX units that they aren't getting enough of the 'proper' use.

Anyone know if DTS is going to modify the home 6.1 channel format that I have heard about for cinema applications. 6.1 channels adds a DISCRETE center surround for home, very cool.

------------------
Dave Cutler

"Do or do not, there is no try."

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-03-2000 11:56 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Who cares about home theater?

Anyway, if you left the EX circuit on all of the time, any analog surround would only come from the back set of speakers, because analog only offers mono surround. Not too effective.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-04-2000 02:57 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Ick! I can just imagine how a digital dropout would sound!

Why would DTS be spending their time on video and not professional cinemas? If they would offer a discrete EX channel, THAT would be a major boost to the format in theaters! It shouldn't be that hard to accomplish.

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Dave Cutler
Master Film Handler

Posts: 277
From: Centennial, CO
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 07-04-2000 11:14 AM      Profile for Dave Cutler   Email Dave Cutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wish DTS would add the discrete center surround to cinema rather than home audio too. I mentioned it to get other opinions on the subject. Although I am not sure how it would be wired. I don't think it could be added to any current analog processors, maybe an update to the DTS-6AD? One can always hope.

Good point about analog surround, you definately wouldn't want to run analog in EX. So just hope your SRD doesn't drop.

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Oscar Neundorfer
Master Film Handler

Posts: 275
From: Senoia, GA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 07-04-2000 11:47 AM      Profile for Oscar Neundorfer   Author's Homepage   Email Oscar Neundorfer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Regarding analog surround while in ex mode:

If the automation part of the ex processor is hooked up correctly and is functioning properly, when the cinema processor reverts to analog, then the ex processor should also revert to non-ex mode. At least this is what happens with the SMART and PANASTEREO products. I believe this is also true with the SA-10 and DTS, although I could be wrong.

------------------
Oscar Neundorfer
Chief Engineer
SMART Devices, Inc.

oscar@smartdev.com

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 07-04-2000 03:48 PM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I see the CP650 offers an EX option for only $1500...how the hell am I supposed to sell this idea to my boss if there's no product to even have the thing switched out of bypass as it is?

Still waiting for that bone, Hollywood. (sigh)...

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Ian Price
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1714
From: Denver, CO
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 07-04-2000 03:57 PM      Profile for Ian Price   Email Ian Price   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So Joe, don't you want the Smart Center Surround EX Emulator for your house?


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-04-2000 05:55 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes Ian, I want that. But I am more concerned with theatrical technology when companies are innovating stuff like that.

The SA10 and DTS-ES will both revert back to normal surround mode if wired correctly. Don't know about the SMART unit. The Century 16 Theatre here in Colorado just leaves their 4 SA10's engaged all of the time. If digital drops out, the SA10 stays engaged. I guess whoever did the install of the SA10 at the Century didn't know what they were doing or figured that the operators are morons!

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