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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Oklahoma in 70mm 30fps Todd-AO (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Oklahoma in 70mm 30fps Todd-AO
John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-03-2000 06:46 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the original 65mm negative or duplicate negative is in good condition, it can be contact printed onto 70mm to make a new print. Frame rate does not matter. Any lab equipped to print and process 70mm can do it. But there is no easy way to convert 30fps to 24fps without introducing artifacts, so the prints of "Oklahoma" from the 65mm negative will need to be shown at 30fps.

Unfortunately, many of the 65mm negatives from the 50's and 60's have lots of physical wear, since in those days, many of the 70mm prints were made directly from the cut negative, rather than a duplicate negative. Those who saw the documentary on the Harris/Katz restoration of "My Fair Lady" can appreciate the problems.

BTW, someone saw my posting and noted that I was correct in saying "Oklahoma" was filmed in both 65mm 30fps, and 35mm 24fps. But "Around the World in 80 Days" was filmed in 65mm for BOTH 30fps and 24fps versions, and the 65mm 24fps version was optically reduced to make the 35mm release prints. Sorry for the misinformation.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-03-2000 07:03 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just an additional thought on "Showmanship":

Can anyone imagine a producer today who would help fund development of a new film system, and go through the trouble and expense of shooting a movie in two formats (65mm 30fps and 35mm 24fps), just to provide superior presentation quality in larger theatres? Other than a few directors like James Cameron, who personally fought to have a few dozen 70mm prints of "Titanic" made, "Showmanship" has died just as surely as Mike Todd did in that plane crash.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-03-2000 07:41 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve Kraus posted links on r.a.m.t to photos and story of the screening of this Todd-AO print of "Oklahoma" at the recent Roger Ebert Film Festival at the Virginia Theatre in Champaign Illinois, April 26-30, 2000:
http://www.ebertfest.com/2scrapbook.htm
http://www.govst.edu/users/gaskrau/ebert.html

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com


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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-03-2000 07:41 AM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John
Showmanship is not dead, it's just very very sick. I think (hope) that there are many of us that still take pride in producing the best presentation possible. (But, I know what you mean). You just don't see that presentation publicly

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-03-2000 08:04 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Greg said: "I think (hope) that there are many of us that still take pride in producing the best presentation possible."

I know that most Film-Tech participants believe that, and hope that in each of our own ways, we can bring back the "magic" of movies presented properly, and a sense of "Showmanship". Nothing can present stories better than "film done right"!

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-04-2000 11:18 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
May I put this forth for consideration?...

We, the projectionists ACTUALLY make the movie, NOT the directors, etc. The director records the picture onto the film but it's not until the film is projected and the light hits the screen that a movie is 'made'!

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-05-2000 04:25 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>Other than a few directors like James Cameron, who personally fought to have a few dozen 70mm prints of "Titanic" made, "Showmanship" has died...<<

Coming soon...Cameron-AO? Come on James...do it!

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The Olympics are coming...RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!!


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Bill Carter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 162
From: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 08-07-2000 12:00 PM      Profile for Bill Carter   Email Bill Carter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well...

The first three presentations of Oklahoma! in Todd-AO have gone off without a hitch. We're getting quite a few "oohs and aahs" from audiences, but the biggest gasp is usually right at the beginning... when the curtain opens on the first credit after the overture.
Showmanship is a powerful thing, huh?

Our shows start with an overture by the house organist (the console rises out of the pit in front of the curtain). I wound up being the one to introduce this show, so after welcoming the audience, I give a very quick history of Todd-AO and actually show them a reel of 35mm and a reel of 70mm film. After proudly presenting Oklahoma! in "the miracle of Todd-AO"... auditorium lights change and the film overture starts. The overture gets applause! The curtain gets applause! It's just amazing.

This show wouldn't have been possible without T.J. Hopland of MTS here in Minneapolis. He managed to turn The Heights into a pretty respectable roadshow house, despite the usual time and money limitations. Just getting those two Norelco AA-II's moved upstairs to the booth and running was a remarkable enough accomplishment!

The Oklahoma! print, overall, is stunning. There are some timing oddities due to an obviously faded negative, but our audiences really didn't notice. The tracks are great, overall. Literally just a couple of quick "pops". There are a few scratches. The biggest problem is the wear inflicted at some point by a Century JJ. I've seen lots of standing scratches at the top of both left and right sides of 70mm prints. One of our projectionists (a veteran of original Todd-AO roadshows, by the way) says if the 70mm loop is even a perf or so too large on a JJ, it can slap against the 35mm pad roller (which is rotated out of position)and pick up those scratches. He says they always took off the 35mm pad rollers completely when running 70mm on the JJ's.

I wish more of you could make it to Minneapolis to see the show.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-07-2000 08:05 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When doing a TAP evaluation for "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" in a rare 70mm Rochester NY appearance, I winced at the classic abrasion marks from the 35mm components of a Century JJ that had been misthreaded. It only takes one misthreading, unless you clear the path. .

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com


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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 08-07-2000 08:10 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That 35mm pad roller can be easily removed, and replaced with another 70mm pad roller to avoid that.

But it's not *that* critical- someone was probably just careless.

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Stan Gunn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 176
From: Clematis, in the hills near Melbourne Australia
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 08-07-2000 08:31 PM      Profile for Stan Gunn   Author's Homepage   Email Stan Gunn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think we should return to carbon arc,
it has a warmer appearance on the screen
that seems to ad a depth to the image
that the light in a bottle can't.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-08-2000 11:03 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When running any 70mm film on a JJ one should remove ALL optical sound head components,and all 35mm pad rollers. 70mm pad rollers should be installed where the 35mm pads were. You can disregard this if you have a front bypass machine, but do install the 70mm pads in the picture head.
70mm prints are not just expensive but a very rare and precious commodity these days so why chance it. And yes, things should be threaded to the exact perf to eliminate any chance of damage. In addition, the Showscan Guides(that most projectionists hate) should also be installed on the intermittant in place of the single roller that is provided on older JJ's. These will help prevent damage from occuring and make the machine run a bit quieter as well.
I have seen JJ's and 35/70 X-L's put out great images, but these two machines are probably responsible for more 70mm film damage that all other makes of machines combined. Nothing IMHO beats a DP-70.
Mark

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-08-2000 04:45 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
The trick is just to thread the machine correctly. Although I do like the guard rails to steady the lower loop and quieten down the running of 70mm, I have never bothered to remove the 35mm components as proper threading does not allow the film to slap on them. Any decent projectionist should be checking these loops on the motoring of the leader anyway just before the douser is opened. If the film doesn't slap on them during the mylar leader, the acetate feature won't slap. Sounds like someone needs new operators!

What is BAD is JJs without even the single roller underneath the intermittent for running 70mm. Most people use that foolish "2 finger loop" theory and will destroy a print with that thinking pattern.


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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-09-2000 09:00 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad,
I agree that if someone can't thread a JJ properly then they should be replaced. But then there is the real world out there, and the thousands of JJ's that are run by ushers, candy people, etc that do not have a clue about how a film can get scratched in the first place. Oddly most 70mm film scratching in a JJ takes place either on the upper 35mm pad roller, or going through the optical sound head. At least in the Chicago area where there were many JJ's at one time that was usually the case. Thats why I advocate removing all of those components and also installing 70mm pads in place of the 35mm. In Chicago we SUPPOSEDLY had qualified operators, but most 70mm prints that we ran at a large sub run house(the Tivoli) were fairly trashed by the time we got them. The 35mm pad roller and sound head scratches were the most common fault.
Even in your own screening room if you have a film pile up, having that 70mm roller on the upper may prevent some damage to several frames, or feet of film before the machine coasts to a stop. I have had several 70mm Cinerama JJ's and dual 70mm pads were stock on these machines, and I'm sure for these reasons.
Mark

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Howard Johnson
Film Handler

Posts: 87
From: Felpham , West Sussex, UK
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-09-2000 04:04 PM      Profile for Howard Johnson   Email Howard Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I remember showing Around The World In 80 Days at the Regent Cinema in Brighton whilst My own cinema the Odeon was closed for modernising in 1968. It was very noisy running through at 30 fps on the trusty Philips Dual 70/35 projectors. The reels were very short especially at the higher speed and we seemed to be changing over every few minutes! The cinema management still insisted on showing the adverts before every show so the chief projectionist had to change one projector to 35mm and alter the speed to 24fps, and then change it back while the first reel was running on the other projector I remember being very impresssed with the film.

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