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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1 2 3 4
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Author
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Topic: Sony causing trouble
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Oscar Neundorfer
Master Film Handler
Posts: 275
From: Senoia, GA
Registered: May 2000
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posted 09-12-2000 06:22 AM
Dave,There's a Kenny Rogers song that says something like this: "You gotta know when to hold 'em,
Know when to fold 'em.
Know when to walk away, and
Know when to run." Sounds to me like you walked away the winner. ------------------
Oscar Neundorfer
Chief Engineer
SMART Devices, Inc. oscar@smartdev.com
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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 03-03-2002 01:49 PM
Thanks Kevin for mentioning my story before I noticed this thread, since this immediately reminded me of that event- basically on a Usenet group I posted a message titled "DTS SUCKS!", which I admit was not the best choice of words, but that was sort of an inside joke directed towards someone else I was working with who insisted that DTS had the best sound out of the 3 competing formats. (I certainly wouldn't use that kind of tone on a forum like this- Usenet on the other hand I've always seen as just a bunch of "geeks", myself included  ) What happened was a somewhat major release had a sneak preview showing the Saturday before it opened, and the DTS discs didn't come with it. I called DTS and was informed that the discs hadn't even been MANUFACTURED yet! Since I'd already had several other movies show up without discs and forced to play in analog, I was pretty mad about this. The point of my Usenet post was to say that IN MY OPINION, DTS was not a viable system because too many times I had gotten prints without discs, and now we'd gotten a film for which discs hadn't even been MADE yet, while there was a Dolby Digital track on the film all ready to go if we'd had the equipment to play it. I mentioned the name of the movie in my post, but not the name or location of the theater and explicitly stated that what I had posted was only MY OPINION, NOT that of the company I worked for. I also stated that I had NOTHING against DTS as a company, in fact I was impressed that they had gotten back to me on a holiday, but that I was completely frustrated with it as a FORMAT, as the very nature of how it worked was a big setback in situations like this. The mistake I made was probably the statement "DTS sucks" was taken that I thought that about the company itself, which was not my intention.
I never heard the exact story of what happened next, but basically my manager asked me what I'd posted that made someone so upset. He didn't say exactly who was mad at me, but sounded like it was either someone from DTS who didn't like me badmouthing their product, or the studio which might not have wanted it known that their sneaks were being shown without DTS discs. I saw a faxed printout of my post in the office later with handwritten comments saying "I think this person works at such-and-such-theater". I had to call the district manager and explain everything to him; I didn't get in any trouble but was told not to post any more comments like that in the future.
Here's the kicker though- the Friday the movie in question opened, the discs STILL were not there. I had to do some more calling around, and they didn't arrive til 2 days later. I found it very telling that someone apparently had enough time to get me in trouble for speaking my mind about this, but didn't have time to make sure this problem was SOLVED! Since then I've gotten to work with Dolby Digital equipment and while that format is not perfect either, at least you can depend on the soundtrack being there since it's printed right on the film. Some argue that DTS still sounds better, but I have better than average hearing and am hard-pressed to tell the difference.
As for SDDS, I've never gotten to work with or hear a properly set-up system so the jury is out on that, I do think however it's a waste to have it installed if you're not going to use the full 8 channels. Most theaters don't have the extra front left and right channels installed. My luck with Sony consumer products has been hit-or-miss; I had horrible luck with a Sony CD changer 10 years ago that had been serviced 5 times and was never actually fixed; right now though I have a Sony Beta VCR that still works fine and a Sony sound system that at the time I bought was the lowest-priced system that had both home DTS and Dolby Digital decoding built-in, and I've been pretty satisfied with it. In fact, I WILL say that I prefer DTS's home sound format to Dolby's most of the time. DTS had the better 5.1 system on laserdisc than Dolby as they used the PCM audio track space on the discs while Dolby crammed it all onto the space of one analog track and requires an external demodulator on most systems to work. DTS multi-channel music CDs are great too.
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David Stambaugh
Film God
Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 03-05-2002 09:47 AM
Failure of 1 Seagate drive proves nothing. Nor does it prove anything that the [Maxtor/WD/IBM] replacement did not fail. In any large sample of a company's products, someone is going to get a lemon on occasion. I can list many many well-known manufacturers who I have had equipment failures or functional problems with. HP, Dell, Compaq, Seagate, Maxtor, Sony, etc. If I swore off a manufacturer every time there was a problem with one of their products, I wouldn't be able to buy anything at all.Having said that, I will admit that Seagate drives historically have seemed less reliable than drives from other manufacturers. Though even that generalization may not apply to the current generation of Seagate products. ------------------
- dave
Look at this! His chin strap has been cut!
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Leo Enticknap
Film God
Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 03-05-2002 11:20 AM
Point taken - there can be exceptions which prove a rule, and no mass-produced consumer electronics product can be infallible. That example sticks in my mind because (i) I really resented the money it cost me to replace the drive, and (ii) thanks to having not been as backup-conscious as I should have been, I lost a chapter of a dissertation which had taken me the previous month to write up.But I do think instinct often turns out to be correct. The other computer component I've had fail was a 3Com ISA modem. I didn't blame 3Com on that occasion because I'd stupidly left it connected to the 'phone line during a thunderstorm, and so presumed that it had been 'nuked' by a power surge caused by the lightning. But about a year later, I was asked by a friend to look at her computer, which she said was having trouble connecting to the Internet (saying no dial tone when the line was fine). Having exhausted the usual software possibilities (this being Windows 98, the first thing I looked for was an IRQ conflict), I opened up the case and what do you think I found? Exactly the same model of 3Com modem card. Score another one for the blacklist! But this guy... we're not talking about a relatively minor component costing a hundred quid/bucks or so, but a very expensive telly which costs more than most people pay for their cars. And when it turned out to be no good he just bought another of the same! Like I said, fishy...
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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-05-2002 12:56 PM
I find it interesting that the guy bought the extended warranty and then, from the way the article tells the story, the retailer and/or manufacturer didn't really want to have anything to do with it.Whenever I get the sales pitch on an extended warranty, they tell me that, despite what they said five minutes ago about this product being the greatest thing you can get, it's still likely to need some kind of service within the next couple of years. (And then, five years later, I realize that it actually doesn't need the head adjustment or color gun re-alignment or whatever other strange thing they used as an example. Remember when they'd show you the VCR with a clear top and try to point out all the little things inside which could break?) They get really pushy about those warranties and they say things like, "If there's any problem at all, we'll fix it. And it we can't fix it we'll gladly give you the newest version of this product as a free replacement." So... if they keep saying those things to customers then they have to accept that some customers are going to try their patience. There are no disclaimers in the sales pitch despite what might be in the fine print of the receipt. So... the guy in California had problems and, eventually, the retailer refused to let him get the extended warranty again. Wow! I'd like to get that put on my permanent record: "When you sell something to Greg, don't even mention the warranty he doesn't need."
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David Stambaugh
Film God
Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002
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posted 03-05-2002 01:35 PM
Among some very rabid home theater enthusiasts, who have money to burn, it is not uncommon for them to buy a new display every time a new model comes out. They will find some fault with the current model that they can't live with, new model is released, gets great reviews, so user upgrades, then finds out the new model has either the same issue or different issues from the previous model that make it unacceptable.I happen to have a Sony 53" HDTV-capable set (not 16:9) which was very highly rated by The Perfect Vision magazine, and received initially very favorable user reviews. So I bought it. Later, users started noticing the set has problems rendering black levels correctly, i.e. the gray scale is bad. I can confirm that. And many of these sets had a serious problem right out of the box: It wouldn't turn on (specifically, it would not display a picture, only sound)! You had to turn it on, wait a few seconds, turn it off, then turn it on again. My set was like that, and it's documented that many other users had the same problem. Sony did eventually fix it, required replacing a board. So based on this experience I should swear off Sony products. I probably won't though, as in general I've had very good luck with them. I will be more discriminating in my choices in the future though (I say that with complete false confidence).
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