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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Which is the best sound format? (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Which is the best sound format?
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-13-2000 04:07 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Digital EQs do NOT necessarily make for better sound. The "digital" buzzword is far too overused today and I strongly feel a cat64B 1/3 octave analog EQ card far surpasses the digital EQ in an SDDS unit or the Dolby CP500. The only time I've ever been really impressed with SDDS was when the signal was ran through a CP200 with the digital EQ disabled and the cat64Bs running.

Others may disagree, but your post made it sound like "digital is better" as a fact. It reminds me of when "HQ" (for "High Quality") was the big buzzword for VHS decks and everybody just HAD to have it, even though the picture difference was so subtle it wasn't worth the hassle of an A/B comparison.



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timothy johnson
Film Handler

Posts: 50
From: minneapolis, mN 55419
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 08-13-2000 11:25 AM      Profile for timothy johnson   Email timothy johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Peter asked what was the best sounding digital sound format of the three for movie houses of today , so sadly 70mm mag is not an option as an answer. so I vote for DTS. I have SRD and DTS in my home screening room with tight accoustics and I hear things you would never hear in a big auditorium. Sound FX that would get lost and bounced around in large theaters. I have honestly gotten up from my seat to check things out in my house because I "heard" a sound that I thought was coming from another room, when really it was an amazing sound effect that was so real and so well placed in the sound field of the surrounds I thought it was maybe someone in my house or a branch falling on my roof, yes I actually get scared at scary movies. I can hear the difference between DTS and SRD. SRD has more compression tricks that DTS does not. DTS has a warmer and more wide open uncompressed sound avoiding the digital trickerey that SRD needs to cram it between the sprocket holes. I love the fact that the DTS track also can have an error for 6 seconds and not drop back to SR, where as my SRD will drop back to SR at splice points for one second.

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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-13-2000 11:37 AM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
" I have honestly gotten up from my seat to check things out in my house because I "heard" a sound that I thought was coming from another room, when really it was an amazing sound effect that was so real and so well placed in the sound field of the surrounds "
Neat! That's a pretty good testimonial. Reminds of that car horn that honks at the beginning of that Rolling Stones song. Can't tell you how many times I got up and looked out the window to see who's here

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut

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Rudy Bergman
Film Handler

Posts: 11
From: Long Beach, CA, USA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 08-17-2000 02:09 AM      Profile for Rudy Bergman   Email Rudy Bergman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
SDDS? are you kidding?! SDDS sound quality is questionable at best. its unreliable and any quality it has degrades severly with use due to the fact that the SPROKETS RUN OVER THE SOUND STRIP! well thats what happens when you get into the game late... all the prime real-estate is taken. so its eight channel... so what if your prints are only mixed for six channels.
personally i prefer the sound of Dolby Digital, but DTS does have the least compression and it is the most fool-proof since it basiclly runs off a cd. gotta love that.

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David Kilderry
Master Film Handler

Posts: 355
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 08-17-2000 05:35 AM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage   Email David Kilderry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good old Dolby A played through an Eprad Super Starscope with the 1978 Eprad Stereo logo joined on the front - what a way to start a feature presentation of Burt reymolds in "Hooper". Those were the days!

David

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Rory Burke
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 181
From: Burbank, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 08-18-2000 03:59 PM      Profile for Rory Burke   Email Rory Burke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It has been widely believed that the ability of a particular sound format to appropriately convey digital audio at reduced data rates and without noticcable degradation is closely allied to the degree of data reduction and its application.

After years of trial and error what eventually turned out was SDDS, SRD, and DTS each with their own proprietary perceptual coding methods each of which has its merits and downfalls. Note: some Sony coding is licensed thru Dolby(funny eh?)

Phychoacoustics (3 principles):
The variation of human auditory sensitivity and perceived loudness with frequency and time and frequency masking of sounds and discrimination between bands of frequencies.

Sony's ATRAC and DOLBY's AC-3 similarly transform audio signals to the frequency domain thru bit allocation and floating point conversion etc etc etc.... The process is similar but not the same.

Some folks think they hear a difference? hmmmm not sure bout that.....Even if you had the ability to directly compare between digital formats on the same sound system, you need to know what coding artifacts to listen for and what types of audio signals are likely to tax the limits on certain codecs(such as transients and multitone signals)
STILL THAT IS NOT ENOUGH!!!...
You need access to the original uncompressed sound mix as well as encoders for each format so that virtually every possible variable in making such comparrisons can be controlled. Then you can decide which format is trully best.

Rory

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Ari Nordström
Master Film Handler

Posts: 283
From: Göteborg, Sweden
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-19-2000 03:32 PM      Profile for Ari Nordström   Email Ari Nordström   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>"I love the fact that the DTS track also can have an error for 6 seconds and not drop back to SR, where as my SRD will drop back to SR at splice points for one second. "<<


Timothy,

The dropping back to SR from SRD shouldn't have to happen at splice points. I know that we don't have that problem (we're running a CP500 and Cat 701 readers) so maybe you should upgrade the digital decoder software or check your reader. What's your setup?

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 08-19-2000 03:40 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I can actually use that solid opaque splicing tape on my cat701 reader without a fallback to analog. (I know this because I commonly pre-screen films with the analog led off.) Sounds like Tim's reader may be just a tad out of alignment.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-20-2000 01:33 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David,

Hooper was in Dolby???

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David Kilderry
Master Film Handler

Posts: 355
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 08-20-2000 06:39 AM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage   Email David Kilderry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John,

No it was not, good old mono. Trust you to pick that up!

I saw a few films at Village East End in Melbourne in the late 1970's early 1980's and they used to run the Dolby Stereo presented with Eprad SuperStarscope logos. I could not recall specifically which were in Dolby at that time, but I do remember seeing Hooper there. Others were Orca, Battlestar Galactica, Mission Galactica, Orca, Abba The Movie, Porky's, etc

I recall it being frustrating at the time to figure from the ads what shows were Stereo (4/6 mag or later Dolby). Shows in 4 track mag in the 1970's were generally not advertised as such. Often the fact a film was in 70mm was not advertised either. I recall Grease moving from the Bercy in 4 track to the Forum in 70mm 6 track and it was not even advertised as stereo! Boy, it sure sounded good in 70mm compared to when i saw it later in mono!

In those days Hoyts Cinema Centre 1, Midcity 5 & 7 and GU Russell Cin 6 were the best sounding theatres in Melbourne with Forum and Capitol a little further behind.

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John Wilson
Film God

Posts: 5438
From: Sydney, Australia.
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-20-2000 06:58 AM      Profile for John Wilson   Email John Wilson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If anyone's interested in what we're talking about with Hooper...go here... http://www.drive-insdownunder.com.au/australian/qld_mackaywestline.htm


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