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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Technicolor strikes again (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Technicolor strikes again
John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-23-2000 08:51 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Two reasons why the disks are forgotten: Inexperienced people not being paid very much, and told to; "hurry up." (As Scott pointed out,) the disks sit in the drawers out of sight, so they are forgotten.

Also, many of the "kids" truly think that most times the print is thrown away after we have it. There are only two 2nd run theaters within 10 miles of us, (and they are both single-screens) so they don't think that's where our print might go.

After all, they send back damaged prints once in a while, and no one seems to notice. So they must not be used again, right?

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 10-23-2000 11:45 PM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Digital? Is it worth the trouble at all? Rarely does it sound significantly better than good (and easier to keep good) analog. There are no discs, no errors, no shifting in and out, no goofy drives, no failure prone processors, digital is just an expensive half assed mess designed to sell malengineered equipment and service for same. Just how it looks to me.

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Bob Minge
Film Handler

Posts: 43
From: Fergus Falls, MN, USA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 10-24-2000 12:19 AM      Profile for Bob Minge   Author's Homepage   Email Bob Minge   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry Bill, I have to disagree. Go to someones theater with a CP500 and get them to switch from digital to SR to A to Mono and then back up in order again to digital. There is a difference between each one. I have done this for customers so they can hear the difference. Yes, a good analog sounds great, but some customers, with a choice, will choose digital over analog if they know. I have some customers who want to know if I will be playing a certain movie in our big theater to hear it in digital. Or they will get to the theater late after I have moved it out of the digital theater and they are disapointed and wished they had gotten here a week earlier. some of those customers are the ones who ask for a film and I tell them it was here for 3 weeks and just left yesterday. And yes, some customers don't care or don't know the difference. But I feel that it is my job to let customers know about the difference so they can look for it and understand the difference and make a choice.

------------------
Bob Minge
Manager/Projectionist
Westridge Cinema 5
Fergus Falls, MN
http://geocities.com/lakesandriverscinema/westridge_cinema_5.html

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-24-2000 10:51 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I feel digital is not only "worth it" but will probably replace optical someday. I also feel it is less maintaince. After all, people are supposed to check Dolby level after changing an exciter bulb, but few do.

It is true that you need special equipment, but that equipment is getting cheaper almost every day, and with the internet, the info needed to set up digital systems is usually freely avaiable.

I bet that projectionists were complaining about the reliabilty of optical sound for years after it was introduced!

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-25-2000 10:34 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Guys,
You have to remember that all digital tracks are mastered from an SR 6 track print master(analog of course). Very rarely is the master in digital. There may be an exception to this for some large format films but those are small productions as compared to feature work.
Probably the best demo I have heard of SR compared to digital(SRD) is "True Lies". The SR tracks are of such high quality that switching from Digital to analog only really increased the channel seperation.
Mark

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Dave Cutler
Master Film Handler

Posts: 277
From: Centennial, CO
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 10-25-2000 01:15 PM      Profile for Dave Cutler   Email Dave Cutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark said:
"Probably the best demo I have heard of SR compared to digital(SRD) is "True Lies". The
SR tracks are of such high quality that switching from Digital to analog only really
increased the channel seperation."

And thats not enough reason to have digital? I agree that many films that are released in digital are a bit silly. For the majority of films Dolby SR is just fine. I personally feel that digital is only necessary for high action or effects movies that require the channel seperation that is gained from digital. For instance Star Trek movies benifit greatly from digital (as the originals did from 6-track mag), but films like, oh, Pay It Forward don't really need to be digital.

Just my opinion.

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 10-25-2000 01:44 PM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All this growling about the different systems. IMHO, I think the first mistake will be taking the sound off the film!

DTS is an updated Vitaphone record!

It's a great idea, but once optical sound goes, then any 35mm sound machine will no longer be able to play any 35mm sound print. I think that the cyan track is the beginning of the end of optical, anyway.

I've been to theatres with mono optical sound and a fantastic, clear, bright, sharp, and steady picture.

I've also been in theatres with a dull image, and sound so loud that it hurt my ears.

I'd rather have the sharp bright image!



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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 10-25-2000 02:04 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Mono sound can be loud too. That's not the fault of the digital playback.

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-25-2000 10:12 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I STILL hear that old saw about DTS.
I call it "Jazz Singer-phobia".

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Bruce McGee
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1776
From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular.
Registered: Aug 1999


 - posted 10-26-2000 06:59 AM      Profile for Bruce McGee   Email Bruce McGee   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry.

I ment to say that I saw films that were dull and dim that had sound that was so sharp and perfect that in one shot when a train went by, the intensity of the audio hurt my ears.
Sure, MONO can kill, too.

I cant for the life of me remember the title of the film with the train.

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 10-26-2000 08:57 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's true that most films are recorded in analog.

But, the point is, the audio "delivery system" at the theaters be of high quality and lower maintance (which I think digital does.) Even if the audio quality was the same, I'd still like to have digital because of less maintance.

Saying that; "... it's analog sound to begin with, so playing it back in digital doesn't matter.." would be like saying; "... why do a 35 to 70mm blowup since the orginal negative is only 35mm?"

I'm sure we've all heard the increase in quality on even old recordings when the master tapes were transfer to CD's.

As far as loosing the DTS disks, although true, that's not the fault of DTS. A system should be used as it was designed... ie: no one really complained about running Cinerama (threading 3 projectors and a sound reproducer.) It was required to get the quality desired. DTS has the lowest compression, can run multiple languges and operate other control functions. If these features are important, don't loose the disks!

Years ago it seend, engineers designed the highest quality motion picture systems they could; the work required to run them was secondary. Today, engineers design the "dumbest-downed" system they can, -then- try to squeeze in the quality afterward. Ho-hum.


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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 10-27-2000 12:52 PM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I see some of you may not be getting discs. If this is happening to you, please let me know. With approval from the studios, we now make one disc set per print. If a theater is getting a "used" print, it's true the first theater may have kept the discs. We cannot help that, but we can (w/the studio's permission) send discs to theaters whenever needed. Remember, the discs belong to the STUDIO, not DTS nor the film distribuator.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com www.dtsonline.com

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Dave Cutler
Master Film Handler

Posts: 277
From: Centennial, CO
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 10-27-2000 01:55 PM      Profile for Dave Cutler   Email Dave Cutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nor do they belong to the exhibitor.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 10-27-2000 05:18 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I wasn't going to post my Techicolor disaster for this week, but since this thread got off topic, I decided to. Besides, it's a good one.

We're playing Urban Legends 2 starting tonight. For some strange reason, my print arrived on Wednesday this week, so I put it together that nite. The last 200' of reel 1, and the first 200' of reel 2 had been FOLDED IN HALF down the middle at some point in the past. So there's a big crease down the middle of the film. The print was obviously run after the "fold" was straightened out, but that caused perf damage, since due to the crease, the film was now slightly too narrow for the average projector. Each reel also had scratches, a splice or two, etc.

So I called TES to order new reels. To their credit, they were very nice on the phone and said they would call the next day with an "ETA" on when the reels would arrive.

The next day... no phone call. As it turned out, I was out of town last night. Got home, and on my answering machine was a message from the bartender at the bar next door to the theatre, saying "This girl is here and says she's supposed to meet you at 9:00, so where are you," etc. Needless to say, my wife was VERY curious about this phone call! So I called the bar, and found out the "girl" was the TES courier with my new reels! She had left the reels at the bar.

So I hightailed it to the bar and got the reels. A happy ending, but ONLY because the print got here on Wednesday night!

Brad, maybe a new forum is in order...TES Horror Stories!

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Frank Prete
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Victoria, Australia
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 10-27-2000 07:33 PM      Profile for Frank Prete   Email Frank Prete   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
With the way the recording industry is going, I don't think it will be too long before film masters are done in the digital domain. All of the editing is completed digitally, most of the mixing consoles are now 'virtual consoles' with each channel being called up on a computer screen.

Much of the location recordings are done using the DAT format (Digital Audio Tape), and much of the ADR stuff would be done with any number of digital recorders.

Lets face it digital recordings are better all round. If you think you can get away without digital then you might find that your customers will start looking else where. With the recent upsurge of DVD units in homes these days, people are becoming more and more aware of the benifits of digital sound - whatever brand you choose! It is not surprising that Dolby have officially changed the name of SRD to Dolby Digital. Everyone recognises the phrase Dolby Digital.

I too have had frustrations with DTS discs not arriving, and on the other hand, I have heard some amazing sound in our DTS theatres. The same goes for Dolby Digital and SDDS. In the early days of digital we would often have a DTS print playing in our SRD house, and an SRD print playing in a DTS house. Now with films coming with multiple formats its not such a problem.

Frank.

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