Okay, let's get down to specifics (it's the only way to understand and hopefully solve your problem):

First, actual wear on sprockets and other equipment components is likely to be LOWER with polyester film. Kodak finds much better "tooling life" on the slitters and perforators that are used to make VISION Color Print Film. How did your "sprockets rip to shreads?" How much film was run to cause the wear? Can you send me the damaged sprockets or close-up photos of the wear?

As far as "ripping rollers off the wall": Yes, polyester film is much stronger than triacetate, and will often stretch rather than break in the event of a jam or "brainwrap". Does your theatre have tension-sensing failsafes as Kodak recommends? What model of failsafe are you using? Where in the film path is it located? In the event of a tension build-up, how does the failsafe work (i.e., what does it turn off?)?

As far as your static concerns:

What is the relative humidity in your projection room, as measured by an accurate digital humidity gauge? (Kodak recommends between 50 and 60 percent RH). Are areas of your projection room especially hot or dry? Does a piece of loose print film seem especially curly or limp, or does it lie flat with a very slight cupping toward the emulsion side (i.e. slight "positive curl")?

What type of platters are in use? Are they properly leveled and timed? Do they have a non-conductive (anodized, plastic, or painted) platter surface? Are conductive rollers used?

Do you treat the platter and roller surfaces with a conductive anti-stat like Static Guard? Do you treat the film in any way (e.g., Film-Guard)? Do you use on-line film cleaners?

How do you make-up the prints? (e.g., From shipping reels or large house reels? Speed of winding? Soundtrack side up or down?)

How do you restrain the prints on the platter, so they don't slide off? Tail tuck? Suction clips? "Bevan-poos"? TECO Stick-a-poos? Retaining ring or hoop? Anti-slip mat (Stuart AV, Speco, or Kelmar)?

When (what reel) does the static cling usually occur? Only on new prints (fresh from the lab)? Any correlation with the weather outside (e.g., cold, hot, humid, dry, rain, snow)? Does it change for the better or worse as the prints are shown multiple times?

What features have had the static problems lately? Print numbers? Lab (if known)? Complete magenta edge print identification?

Are you sure that the jams and sticking are caused by static? Or might there be sticky splices, sticky cue tapes, damp prints, or contamination from handling?

You can contact me directly if you don't want to share these details in public. Unfortunately, you have not listed an e-mail address or other way of contacting you to get this needed information.

Here is the listing from the Strong website:

"Platter Accessories and Options

Wrap Detectors sense excessive film tension
during operation, shutting down before damage
to the projection system can occur. Can also
interface directly to the Automation system. Wrap
Detectors can be factory- or field-installed on all
Strong Platter Systems."
http://www.strong-cinema.com/html/platters.html

And from the Christie website:

"A tension failsafe device is also currently available to prevent damage to the projector or platter system should a problem arise. (Christie part number 196270-001)."
http://www.christieinc.com/fldblt/FLDBLT_Static_108.pdf

BTW, these failsafes should be wired into the automation so that they shut off the power to the PROJECTOR motor for the fastest possible shutdown in the event of a jam. The failsafes that use "trolleys" or tension compensators usually allow enough slack for the projector to "coast" to a stop with minimal film damage.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

quote:

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I simply can not understand why theaters that damage prints are not charged for it. It can't be because the exchanges don't inspect prints between theaters.

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Yes, that IS the reason.

quote:

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Simply tell the next theater to inspect the print on arrival, or they will be responsible.

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That would be a nightmare waiting to happen. We're usually the 2nd or 3rd theatre to get a print. If we get a totally clean print, it's unusual...there are always SOME small defects. What if the last theatre got a print with just a few scratches on it, but didn't think it was bad enough to report it? Then if the next theatre, or the next, has a projectionist who will only settle for absolute perfection, then the print gets reported, the previous theatre gets blamed, but they didn't cause the damage!

Thank you. We're here to help.

FWIW, when Kodak sold color print film on both triacetate and ESTAR base, they were essentially the same price. As I said, NATO and the distributors felt the advantages of polyester outweighed the concerns, and not that "they could make out on this deal".

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com

I beleive it was distributor-driven, because as much as I hate to admit it, theaters trash prints. A lot. Distributors know this, and got tired of waiting for uncaring theaters to clean up their act, and just took matters into their own hands. "We have met the enemy, and it is us." I know no one here treats prints poorly, because the fact people post here shows they care about their craft. But we are in the minority here. I don't know what theaters you go to, but many of the ones I visit suck, plain and simple.

I would rather have projectionists who know what they are doing- running acetate. But, that not going to happen. So I prefer polyester. (As someone else joked, they'd like to have poor projectionists running nitrate- that way, they would be self-elminating!)

Note to Mike B: I know there will always be some minor scratches, etc. on used prints. No one can get that picky. The damage I'm talking about is when there are platter scratches for an entire reel; more then 30 sec. of film are cut out; an entire print that looks like it was soaked in oil. That level of damage.

Of course, theater owners would probably send hitmen after us.

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Personally speaking, I like the fact that I've had very few actual film breaks over the last few years. I use tension sensing devices on all 7 of my projectors. Also in use on all 7 machines are static brushes to chase away any nasty static that does find it's way on to the film. I spray the platters, in cold dry weather, with static spray that can be bought from any supermarket.

Using these devices and static spray as well as taking care to thread the projector properly with the right size loops and CLEANING THE FILM PATH AT EACH AND EVERY THREAD UP I have very few problems.

Who cares who pushed who to use or not use a particular type of film. I get paid to put on good presentations not indulge in conspiracy theories,

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I think just about all of them do have the option of tension failsafes, of some sort, installed from the factory. I am surprised you list the Strong platter since while they most certainly have a tension sensing failsafe, it doesn't have a "trolly" just a simple switch (like Christie). It is a bit flawed in that it primarily shuts off the take up platter in the hopes that the film will continue to spill and cause the regular failsafes to trip.

In any event, this sort of tension sensing failsafe is next to worthless in the prevention damage since most projectors have good flywheel systems that will continue to pull the film even after they are turned off for several seconds.

Furthermore, some automations have anti bobble delays to ensure sticky splices won't false trip (another issue entirely, I know)

To be effective, the tension sensing failsafe should have enough range in it's trolly to allow even a Simplex to wind down without deforming the perforations.

Big Sky and Neumade have a bit of a run-out range. SPECO just shortened theirs, no doubt to combat poor splicing technique(s)by putting a mechanical delay on the switch thereby making theirs little better than the Potts/Strong or Christie style.

What is really needed to make the tension sensing failsafes effective in their job is to take a film accumulator and put it in the payout thread up path and put a switch so that if the shuttle ever leaves the bottom the automation is told to shut down....then the film NEVER over tensions to the point of damage.

The only damage the above mentioned detectors seem to be any good at is forgetting to turn the payout platter on or leaving the platter in the "make-up" mode.

In short, polyester is bad for the industry at the moment. Even if ideal wrap detectors are designed (depending on one's vision of ideal), polyester is STILL a problem since the wraps still happen...the detector does just that...it detects a PROBLEM that will interrupt a show and to some degree downgrade the movie experience for those in the audience.

Again, I don't fault Kodak or any of the other fine film manufactures on this one...this the fault of those that pushed for it when it offered very few benefits compared to it's ever present harm. Like RED leds, it was poorly thought out, rushed, and the industry is paying for it to this day.

You take a survey of booth personel (lets face it they are the ones that have to really deal with film) I have no doubt that some would want polyester film but 90%+ (and Brad gives you even worse estimates) would want acetate back tomorrow if they could have it.

Your wrap detectors may be necessary but certainly not sufficient. The industry has been degraded by polyester prints being used in conventional theatres when one looks at the big picture.

Steve

and as to the platter tension failsafes I prefer the component engineering FM-35 Cue detector because if the film stops moving it shuts down the projector so if theres a brainwrap the minute the tension becomes too much and the film cant be pulled through the projector anymore it shuts down!

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I love to smoke I smoke seventhousand packs a day and I'm never F*&ing quittin!-- Denis Leary

Since it is thinner it would take less "force" to hold the layers together, thus "amplifying" the appearent influence of static cling as well

Some kind of "non-polar" substance could cure that if it were incorporated into the mix, couldn't it?
Nylon and Teflon are substances that don't stick to almost anything but the plastic that those vegetable bags from the grocery store are made of makes it nearly impossible to open the bag even if there is no static.

Also, what about somehow "under engineering" polyester film to make it weaker? ... just a touch...

The reason I say this is because I see film clinging even during the summer months when the humididy is naturally right in the 50% range