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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Drive In Radio Sound (need help) (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Drive In Radio Sound (need help)
David Kilderry
Master Film Handler

Posts: 355
From: Melbourne Australia
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 12-12-2000 03:52 AM      Profile for David Kilderry   Author's Homepage   Email David Kilderry   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
FM stereo sound at the drive-in came in a little too late here in Australia to become widespread. It was first used in about 1983. In 1978 Cine-Fi AM came in and that was at least a small step forward.

Of course today almost all remaining drive-ins use FM. There are several models to choose from made locally. The problem is with an unlicenced 50 milliwatt transmitter you are at the mercy of a new licence.

Say you choose 91.1 FM and do all your slides and signage for that frequency, then a new licenced station opens up within 75 miles on the same frequency and before you know it on some nights you hear Slim Dusty instead of Mel Gibson!

You can of course buy a 10 watt unit and blow anything else away, but that brings another set of problems - you affect others who have paid big $ for their licence. The key is to use a low power unit and choose a frequency that is in use already, but a long distance away. Your low power unit will be OK if the station is 150 - 200 miles away and they will not licence another station on the same frequency in the same state - applies to Australia anyway.

I think I'll go down to the garage and seek out my original blue Cine-Fi hire radio. I wonder how many ramps still have Cine-Fi clips hanging on them???

David

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Jeff Stricker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 481
From: Calumet, Mi USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 12-12-2000 05:49 AM      Profile for Jeff Stricker   Email Jeff Stricker   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bill,

Boy a CBS Volumax!! Now there's a relic...probably the first successful solid state broadcast audio processor. Actually I have one in my collection of junque. Actually if you just needed mono sound, it would do the trick for non-discerning drive-in patrons. You may need some transformers to adapt it since it's balanced in and out. Two would do stereo

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Chris Erwin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 195
From: Olive Hill,KY
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 12-13-2000 05:51 AM      Profile for Chris Erwin   Email Chris Erwin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for the info guys!

Bill, the radio station I worked at has an old volumax on AM and an Optimod 8100A on the FM. Memories......

Has anyone heard of Broadcast Warehouse? They make a rack mount 100 mW FCC legal (part 15 reg.) transmitter for FM. About $300-400. Comet antenna for around $100.

I keep hearing about a Skycaster unit. Anyone have info on this?

I might go with an AM and FM config. (for redundancy-one blows up the other's similcasting) AM still looking...FM Decade?

Still have plenty of time to look and shop.
--Chris

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Barry Floyd
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1079
From: Lebanon, Tennessee, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 12-13-2000 06:43 AM      Profile for Barry Floyd   Author's Homepage   Email Barry Floyd   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You had mentioned a "Skycaster" transmitter... I don't know about that one, but Cinema Products International in Nashville, Tennessee sells a "SKYMASTER" series of transmitters.

I believe Steve ______? (I forget his last name) at the Swan Drive-In in Blueridge, Georgia uses one of these at his theatre. Worked very well when I was down there in September. Give him a call or email him.


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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-15-2000 12:42 AM      Profile for William Hooper   Author's Homepage   Email William Hooper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm curious about these FM transmitters used at drive-in's -- some of them sound like they're non-DI-specific, so might have just Left & Right inputs.

If someone's using one of these, what do they do? Send L&R, & leave Center unused?

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 12-15-2000 12:48 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Whatever you use, make absolutely sure it has proper FCC certifications. I am also a chief engineer of a radio station, and FCC frowns on renegade equipment, and will shut you down. Periodically, they will check, especially if someone complains about adjacent channel interference, splattering harmonics all over the place, etc.

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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 12-15-2000 01:26 AM      Profile for William Hooper   Author's Homepage   Email William Hooper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 

The FCC is now the executive arm of the NAB.



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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 12-18-2000 11:54 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Don't let them NAB our airwaves"

anyone else heard that one?

anyway, regarding FM Drive-in transmitters, I f you are unlicensed in the U.S. your maximum output power is limited to around 100 microvolts at 10 feet(I think, It's been a while.) Regarding compression, it wouldn't hurt. The main reason why commercial broadcasters use it is to prevent overmodulation, or for FM, carrier deviation over 75 KHz. The reciever will detect such an occurance as clipping of the audio signal. Overmodulation also is against the FCC's rules. IMHO if you put a harmonic free signal into the air with proper compression, you should be able to use as much power as you want.

Josh


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Peter Berrett
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Victoria, Australia
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 08-26-2002 05:42 AM      Profile for Peter Berrett   Author's Homepage   Email Peter Berrett   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi all

This post is several years old but for those who have the desire to try and build their own drive-in fm transmitter here are some very cheap (and Australia) kits that can help. Halve the prices to get $US
http://www.ozspy.com.au/kits/kits.htm (this one is illegal in Australia methinks as it puts out 200 microwatts)
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~auselec/commun.htm
http://ieee.uow.edu.au/~daniel/projects/radio_link/ (super cheap)

Slightly more expensive but currently on special in the US is
http://www.mp3playerstore.com/buy_it_now__/link-it.htm

cheers Peter



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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 08-26-2002 03:15 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know if I would go so far as to day Drive-In theater patrons don't care about digital surround sound. They just know it is not feasible in a drive in theater setting and don't fuss about it. Certainly the car stereo and digital radio broadcast technology is already there, and has been for years, to make something like Dolby Digital surround in a drive-in possible. It is just a few greedy, political bastards in key places in the music and broadcast industry that keep it from happening.

The radio broadcast industry has to agree on a single standard (which they have not done). And "next generation" music discs like DVD-A and SACD have to become commonplace (also hasn't happened). Until those foundation level advancements happen, 5.1 surround car stereos will remain a very small niche market item. Only after those developments happen will one be able to digitally transmit an AC-3 bitstream to car stereos in the drive-in.

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Bruce Hansen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 847
From: Stone Mountain, GA, USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-26-2002 06:24 PM      Profile for Bruce Hansen   Email Bruce Hansen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Peter,
Those "cheep" transmitters are not crystal controled, and are rather unstable. Most car radios today tune only to exact freqs., and will not track these "cheep" transmitters as they drift all over the place. They also do not put out enough power to go more than 20 feet.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-26-2002 11:10 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A couple of points you don't want a compressor since the procesor's A type and SR noise reduction is an expander and you will get pumpling and breathing

Run the Dolby Cat69t taht is 50% modulated and set the gain stages for the transmitter to that and you will not have to worry about overmodulation

Since the transmitter will be recieving Lt and Rt they will transmit the centre and surround channels in a standard matrix mode which some car units now decode


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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-27-2002 12:16 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dave said: >apparently inexpensive "Virtual Surround" processors are soon to be available. Originally intended for the home market, they apparently take the surround and channel it to similar (?) effect through simple L/R systems. Of course, this would be great for the drive-ins. Imagine if you will, "This drive-in is now radio-active in high-fidelity virtual drive-in surround sound!" <

Sony has a consumer unit now out on the market - MDR-DS5100 Wireless Surround Headphones. It will take any encoded L/R outputs, as well as a 5.1 input; it then outputs a L/R signal that has been processed to create the Virtual Surround that Dave is talking about. Obstensibly its purpose is to broadcast the processed signal to its complimentary headset receiver, but the output is easily be sent to any line level input such as the FM stereo transmitter. The resultant processed signal creates a psychoacoustical soundfield that simulates 5.1 surround sound in any 2 channel playback system, be it the headset or a standard stereo car receiver. In the headset it sounds quite impressive, but I have heard this same system used in some TV sets and computer 2 channel playback system and even though it requires a person sit equidistant between the two speakers in the close-field "sweet spot," a car environement puts the occupants close enough to the sweet spot that surround effects will still be perceived.

And you are totally right Dave, what a great marketing tool it would be to be able to claim that you are the first Drive-in in the world to have Dolby Virtual 5.1 Surround Sound! Throw this up on the screen using the Dolby Surround logo snipe and it will be the talk of the town. It should even get a few free newspaper stories written about it.


Frank

PS, In NYC, the Sony unit is available at J&R Music World.

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William Bunch
Film Handler

Posts: 87
From: Misawa, Japan
Registered: Nov 2001


 - posted 08-27-2002 01:31 AM      Profile for William Bunch   Author's Homepage   Email William Bunch   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I built the earlier version of the Ramsey FM25. It is crystal controlled and you set the frequency by flipping a few simple DIP switches. I pump it into a FMA200 5/8 wave Ramsey antenna. This transmitter is strappable to higher output. I tried it once but caused some interference on a few TV channels. On the low power setting I can get halfway across town for at least half a mile. This transmitter has excellent frequency response. As with any transmitter there are three things to remember: antenna, antenna and antenna. Today's automobile with it's wimpy "in the glass" painted antennas do not receive weak signals well but on a small theater lot you should have no problem.

Also, commercial broadcasters transmit horizontally while the Ramsey antenna punches out vertically. If you use it on low power your interference to TVs and other broadcasters should be minimal. And the "capture ratio effect" will allow the licensed broadcaster to win out in any conflict. Unless of course your nextdoor neighbor is trying to bring in a distant signal from 75 miles near the horizon then you could be considered "interference".

Bill BuncH
Misawa, Japan

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