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Topic: Frame Drift?

Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-31-2001 06:42 PM

David, what you said:

>Let me see if I've figured this out. Frame adjust is meant to be started in the centre, and tweaked slightly as need be?????? Threading up with it cranked all the way meant that I never could quite get it back in frame (or to stay still). Also, it's spring-loaded. Is this to tighten it up? Should it be depressed when adjusting? Thank you.<

Something is fishy here. I never heard of having to depress a spring while adjusting the frame knob. It sounds to me like you have a "C" clip that flew off the shaft that has the framing knobs. Look at where the framing knob shaft goes through the projector casting and see if all the parts are there.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-31-2001 06:51 PM

Mark, the Fricton Spring P-1755 should provide enough tension on the P-1752 Framing Shaft Friction Disk Washer to keep the intermittent from walking the carriage. If he finds all his parts are on the shaft where they belong and the spring is not broken or collapsed (literally), then the two little P-1705 clips you speak of are badly sprung, worn, or broken. But Dave has not indicated if the machine rolls forward very smoothly without binding yet. So I don't know what kind of shape his movement is in. I am presently under the impression that it creaps no matter where the frame knob is positioned.

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Francis Casey
Film Handler

Posts: 44
From: Saint John, NB, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 01-31-2001 07:26 PM

To John Walsh
Re marking the framer knob--the newer Simplex Millenium projectors use a T-HANDLE as the framer knob , this would allow you to more accurately judge and or mark your flat and scope framer position . I don't know the part number , but you can order them from Strong or your cinema equipment dealer . They are a direct replacement for your old ROUND black framer knob .
Francis

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-31-2001 07:52 PM

Part Number is P-10159, according to the manual.

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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 01-31-2001 07:59 PM

Paul, I really need to run this machine more, but I believe it only creeps back toward centre from extreme clockwise framing (on the film side). The machine seems very quiet otherwise, it does need replacement of shutter blade (cracked "hub"). No, I don't have to "depress" spring to turn framing, I just didn't know what the spring was for.

Should the intermittent be opened up each day and oiled a bit before starting? Also, will cold or even freezing temps adversely affect start-up? I think I may have started it a little prior to the garage warming-up. Another thought is that I may have threaded improperly. I'll give it another go tonight.......

Roughly how far (in frames) will these things move your picture? One thing I need to do is get the framing lamps hooked up, right now I can't really see where I'm framing.....

"Expert" Dave!

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-31-2001 08:12 PM

Dave, then I would suspect your problem is the little clips Mark was talking about.

No, it is not necessary to open the machine up every day to oil the movement, and Yes, cold or feezeing temperatures will effect the start-up. If at all possible, let the room come up to a fairly comfortable temperature level if all possible. If you can see your breath, it is just too darn cold! I have run some drive-in's in the winter time where it was so cold, the motors could not bring the machines up to full speed. It is obvoiously hard on motors, and projectors, too.

A nifty thing I was taught in MPO school is to use a flashlight and articulate it in such a manner whereas when you look down the barrell, you can see if you are in frame or not. There are other means at your disposal to determine if you are framed correctly.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 01-31-2001 08:20 PM

Dave, on the intermittent should be a tiny marker line. It should be pointing straight up to center the travel and ensure it gets oil from the bath.

John W, I've never heard of a motorized base tilt, but I have seen operators place a piece of tape on the wheel and they know how many turns clockwise to reach this lens setting and counterclockwise to reach that lens setting. Works well, but is just something else to have to deal with when changing formats.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-31-2001 08:32 PM

Brad, that is a very good point. I have an XL intermittant sitting next to my keyboard, and to be quite frank about it, and all the years I run XL's, it never occurred to me the little red line could be used as a reference as you described. Thanks for the tip.

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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 01-31-2001 09:16 PM

Given a nice warm room and a snugly fit "shutter-blade guard", she was just fine tonight without film. Centred framing, good with film, with a slight bit of drift at the extremes. Yes Brad, I had frigged around with it and sort of thought the sweet spot was "red-line up" rather than the word "FRAME" level as the old manual suggests (suppose that's easy to fix). The clamp that holds the spring on the framing shaft is a PA-1570. An allan-key is here and on the "non-spring" side. Is that meant to be adjusted for more "retention". Thanks so much guys, this is fun.....I still think my framing is lousy and possibly too tight. I can cheat in reverse, with no lamps, I can thread right through the aperture plate. But I ought to get 6000' reels, I wouldn't trust myself to be ready for 20min. changeovers at this point!

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-31-2001 09:32 PM

Dave, While that can be adjusted for more or less tension that is not the correct thing to do. There is obviously another problem going on here. The shaft should be adjusted for normal framing tension. I have used a partial projector with no framing shaft at all to run in overhauled movements for years and it never crept at all. It does have those nifty spring clamps in it though.
Mark @ GTS

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 01-31-2001 09:52 PM

Even putting just one of the spring style clips will stop a walking intermittent. Getting to the lower clip can be a pain if time is tight.

Another cause of wondering framing, though it doesn't sound like it in this case, is the shutter compensator...if it is vibrating..the compsator can "tap" on the intermittent case and cause it to rotate. A really bad compensator can walk the framing around in about 15 seconds.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-31-2001 10:34 PM

Steve, that is why I was asking about the "Clunkity" run-down. The compensator is driven off the vertical shaft via G-1803, and would not cause frame drift. Just a lot of racket and pulsating travel ghost. I have never seen that happen, but then again, it is not good to "never say never". However, I saw one compensator running where the casting was actually broken with the shaft thrusting in and out, but it never walked the intermittent.

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99

posted 02-01-2001 12:04 AM

Dave, A little tip...center the framing via the line on the intermittent and then push inward on the round "FRAME" knob. When it is pushed in fairly hard, it is designed to be able to be repositioned so the word FRAME is level. That way at a glance, you know if you are centered.

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John Hegel
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 166
From: Lake Mills, Iowa
Registered: Sep 2000

posted 02-01-2001 01:33 AM

I have a question, what if my XL is making the "Clunkity" run-down, and start up. The noise has just started getting really bad, and I was wondering if there is something I can do to prevent it from getting any worse.

Thanks for your help,
John

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 02-01-2001 07:40 AM

Paul,

Yes the shutter compensator is driven off the G-1803 but the shutter compensator has it's framing rod and roller (P-1479 and P-1480 respectively) riding on the intermittent framing cam (P-1708). Depeding on the strengh of the P-1705 clips and the vibration transmitted through the framing rod (from a vibrating compensator), the framing rod will actually push the cam around.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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