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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Making Up Prints (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Making Up Prints
John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-06-2001 01:15 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Good for you, Tom. So your 5-minute figure was for that last rewind onto the shipping reel? So prints leave your theatre heads out?

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 04-06-2001 01:21 PM      Profile for James R. Hammonds, Jr   Email James R. Hammonds, Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I once spent 2 hours biulding up a print with the trailers already made.

The print in question was our third print of END OF DAYS (why 3 prints i will never understand).

This print came in at 1 AM from another theatre in town (i dont know why technicolor wouldnt just let them keep it since they were going to run it anyway) that used it for a screening.

These guys tore the film down NOT by separating the reels but by filling one reel up completely and cutting it NOT EVEN ON THE FRAME LINE.

Although this should NEVER happen, it would not have been so bad if they had left the trailers off.

That way, I could have just found the Universal logo and matched the frame at the end of this the first reel an a half to the next reel and 3/4 and so on.

But they did leave three trailers attached, the first one being PITCH BLACK.

This trailer started off with some frames that looked like it could have been part of the END OF DAYS feature.

So my manager and I spent two hours winding and rewinding each reel so we could either find the beginning or end and start from there.

So we had the print biult up by 3 AM AND THEN WE HAD TO SCREEN IT!!!

If this print had been torn down properly, we probably would have said "screw it, lets get out of here" but given the condition of the print, we felt some strange moral obligation to run it anyway.

Only one bad splice in the whole feature.

If this would have happened today, I would have called technicolor to report this (which I should have done then) and probably called this particular theatre's manager to let him/her know what happened.

Speaking of tearing down prints, I know a guy who could have a print torn down 5 minutes after it was over using platters.

What I am about to tell you should NEVER be done as most of you already know.

What he would do is:

1. Trun off the failsafe.
2. Wait until the reel change and rip the splice, letting the beginning or reel 2 feed to the floor.
3. Quickly wind reel 2 onto a new center ring and let the print play as usual.
4. While reel 2 is taking up, wind reel 1 onto a shipping reel.
5. Repeat as neccessary.

Now there are A LOT of things I've been willing to try in the past (some of them not very good), but for some reason, I was always afraid to try this one.

I think I'd rather stay an extra half hour that to deal with god knows what would happen.

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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-06-2001 01:27 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think I've gotten some prints from that guy!

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-06-2001 01:35 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
James R. Hammonds Jr. said:

"What I am about to tell you should NEVER be done as most of you already know. I know a guy who could have a print torn down 5 minutes after it was over using platters.

What he would do is:

1. Turn off the failsafe.
2. Wait until the reel change and rip the splice, letting the beginning or reel 2 feed to the floor.
3. Quickly wind reel 2 onto a new center ring and let the print play as usual.
4. While reel 2 is taking up, wind reel 1 onto a shipping reel.
5. Repeat as neccessary.

Now there are A LOT of things I've been willing to try in the past (some of them not very good), but for some
reason, I was always afraid to try this one.

I think I'd rather stay an extra half hour that to deal with god knows what would happen."

____________________________________________

That kind of uncaring and selfish incompetence makes me sad, and MAD! I can just image how filthy and scratched that print looked at the next theatre that was unfortunate enough to get it. As the cartoon character Pogo said, "We have met the enemy, and he is US!" Please tell that guy to "Do Film Right", or he should find another job.
http://www.igopogo.com/Wehavemet01.jpg
------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Tom Sauter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 163
From: Buffalo, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2000


 - posted 04-06-2001 04:57 PM      Profile for Tom Sauter   Author's Homepage   Email Tom Sauter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John:
Yes, 5 minutes to rewind onto the shipping reel. And prints leave heads out... I used to be very conscious of this but I now receive so many prints heads out that four separate trips through the rewind bench eats up a lot of time that I'd rather spend inspecting and pre-screening. When prints arrive tails out (for which I am always eternally grateful) I like to keep the good karma going and give it another whirl through the rewind at the end of the night.

James:
We could have a new olympic sport on our hands !

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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-06-2001 05:42 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
For me it all depends on the conditions I am working under.

At the first run theatres you can take a few carefully chosen shortcuts, essentially because you know you're getting a freshly-struck print. All you need is to give it a "once over" when you build it. Again, when you break it down, you know YOU (or somebody you know) are the one who built it up. You don't have to waste a lot of time looking for extra splices and damage in the film. (Unless you have had wraps, etc.)

When I'm doing things in a "Dollar Theatre" I take my time to check the reels for preexisting damage. Breaking down goes a little slower too since I was not the only one to handle the film.

When I'm working with even older prints, such as when I was working at the college, I took the time to inspect every foot of film and run it through the film cleaner even before it was screened for the first time. We used to get a lot of prints through New Yorker Films and Kit Parker. Lemme' tell you, I almost cried the first time I opened up some of those prints!

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Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-08-2001 02:28 AM      Profile for Demetris Thoupis   Email Demetris Thoupis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well Well Well.
Making up a print depends on many factors. If the print is brand new, used, being made up on a platter or on spools. Personally I have dealt with both and I found out that making a print on spools is much faster and easier but that depends on the experience of each projectionist. On spool it takes me approximately 35-40 minutes to actually prepare a brand new print with trailers e.t.c. On platter, it takes no more that 1 hour and ten minutes to make a nice built up of a film with trailers e.t.c.
Thanks

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Rachel Carter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 248
From: Gloucester, Massachusetts, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 04-08-2001 03:52 AM      Profile for Rachel Carter   Email Rachel Carter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I work at a "dollar" theater so I get the old, used, and disgusting films....some of the films we get I just feel like throwing on the floor, HEY they're scratched, dirty, and ruined anyway!!! NO, no, no, just kidding!!!

Really, some of the prints we get are horrible considering most have usually been thru at LEAST 2 theaters if not more!!! There is no reason for a print to be cut half way thru a reel just because the “so called” projectionist went by the splice and didn’t want to back it up! This has happened many many MANY times! What about the, hey lets screw with the projectionist at the next theater and splice the movie half way thru the reel and turn the print over so the sound track is on the opposite side….THAT SOUNDS FUN! GRRRR… That has also happened numerous times.

Some of the prints we get are horrible and every pre-run print needs to be inspected closely. It usually takes me about 2 hours to build a complete print (depending on the length of the film) and 30-45 minutes to break down a print.


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-08-2001 04:58 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I was runnning films at the college I called up the previous place that had that film on occasion. Based on what I found I would often call up the distributor and tell them what I found out. Sorry to say that more than one place probably got charged for damaging film on my account. On second thought... NO! I'm NOT sorry!

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Scott D. Neff
Theatre Dork

Posts: 919
From: San Francisco, CA
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-08-2001 05:05 PM      Profile for Scott D. Neff   Author's Homepage   Email Scott D. Neff   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Why not just get a Super or Potts platter... then you can break down OR build up in about 20 minutes -- ESPECIALLY if you're Aaron Sisemore -- HOW MANY brains have been lost to the "instant makeup"?

------------------
Scott D. Neff
"Biding My Time"

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 04-08-2001 10:56 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott: Are you insinuating that I trash prints??? I Think NOT. And only one brain was the victim of a polyester film snap while going onto a 6000' reel, no more. Sheesh... :P

Aaron

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Joe Schmidt
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 172
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 04-09-2001 02:27 AM      Profile for Joe Schmidt   Email Joe Schmidt   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I sure am enjoying reading all the posts on this forum to get a feel for things.

Platter systems have always made me somewhat nervous under the best of circumstances, particularly the practice of having only a single projector with no backup associated with the platter. At least a 4 or 5-platter stack has some redundancy as you could rob parts from one to fix another. Knowing the way things were going made me happy to retire from the business when I did and go on to other interests that weren't, as I saw it, deteriorating.

Guess this makes me a bit of an old fogey. I'm fully familiar with how platter systems function and I've worked booths that had them, but platters are best described this way: "When they're good, they're very, very good, and when they're bad, they're horrible!

I used to know a guy who routinely did exactly what everyone is complaining of in the previous posts -- bypassing the fail-safes, ripping the splice, etc. and on his way home 5 min. after the last show. There were never any horrible consequences, but...

a) This was an immaculate, carpeted booth and the floor was very clean and vacuumed often, thus the film was not harmed by a little bit going on the carpet briefly for the switch-over.

b) He was a real solid, focused and well-coordinated guy.

c) He didn't have to do the "magic act" too many times as he for the last show he'd take up the film onto a 6000' reel, rip the splice, pull the reel off, put another on, get it started taking up and finally put the failsafe back on. The last reel of the feature wound direct to its shipping reel; into the can, out the door and on the way home!

d) This was really something to watch, and he never messed up. True, it is not for everyone and I doubt I'd have the courage, or the sharp coordination, to try it. Still, I think it is an acquired skill that could be learned by practicing the routine with some scrap film until you got it right. That's what I would need to do.

Really, what it all came down to was, as he said, "I have a life" and "I don't want to stay here half the nite tearing down film when there's a faster way!"


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 04-09-2001 03:18 AM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Platters: Some people swear BY them... Some people swear AT them.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 04-09-2001 08:43 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe Schmidt:

Even if the floor were spotless, just cutting the print "on the fly" and starting the next reel onto a takeup hub will put lots of cinch marks onto the film. Not to mention the fingerprints from the rushed handling involved. It is NOT "Film Done Right".

I'm sorry, but " "I have a life" and "I don't want to stay here half the nite tearing down film when there's a faster way!" strikes me as having a selfish attitude when it comes to presentation quality.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 04-09-2001 09:21 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I once knew a girl who managed a theater, and did a great job. She was telling me how great her staff was, and gave this example: Once, they were shipped a bad last reel of a feature, and could not get a replacement in time for the show. So, they started the feature anyway and let it run. The replacement reel arrived about 40 minutes before the end would run out. Apparently, the operator spliced the tail on to the head of the last reel while the show was running, and let the last reel pay out while on the makeup table.

Now, I had visions of some guy pulling off about 50 feet of film, it sliding across the floor while he frantically chopped and spliced it. I mentioned this to her (suggesting it would be better to at least stop while splicing) and she was surprised I would think that. She really thought I had the _entire_ concept totally wrong; that the show must go on, customers should never sit in a dark theater, they pay good money and deserve this kind of service.

So my point is, you never know how even a well-meaning person will interpret “doing it right.” She was a good manager, ran the theater well, kept the booth clean, etc. What could I say? I ended up just not saying anything further.

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