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Author Topic: Letterboxed "ER" on tv
Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 05-04-2001 09:30 PM      Profile for Greg Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, I happen to work on a network TV show. We shoot in Super 35 with a 3-perf pull-down. The main action must take place within the 4:3 middle area of the screen... within the 16:9 area which makes up the entire image on the camera negative.

The idea is to shoot it so that it'll work both ways. However, any good cameraman will tell you that it's impossible to make the image correct for two aspect ratios at once in every shot.

And ours isn't the only TV show which shoots with this "dual aspect ratio" method. Consequently, when I watch most TV shows these days it looks to me like the sides have been chopped off (like watching a theatrical film in a pan-and-scan video version). I wish all TV shows which use the 16:9 aspect ratio in production would be presented that way... even if it means letterboxing in the NTSC version. The wider aspect ratio is, quite simply, more pleasing to the eye and it allows better composition within the frame.


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-04-2001 10:12 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I remember that film, Character it was pretty good. So much so that I don't remember it using Steadicam. It must have been some good work.

The only thing I REALLY remeber is driving down the freeway at 100 MPH because 1/2 of the print wasn't delivered until less than an HOUR before the show was to start. (I got it done, though! )

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Mitchell Cope
Master Film Handler

Posts: 256
From: Overland Park, KS, United States
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-05-2001 08:00 AM      Profile for Mitchell Cope   Email Mitchell Cope   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I haven't watched "NYPD Blue" in a long time, but the first couple of years had that strong camera movement drifting here and there. I was always amazed that this could be done in filming to perfect excess. I thought surely not, maybe they add that later through optical printing. Does anyone know for sure if the jerky, drifting, seizure style of camera work is an actual talent? Not only does the director have to worry about the performance of his actors, but the necessary jerkiness of the camera. I can see it now, sorry Mr. Franz, you were great, but the cameraman under (or over) did his performance.

While this may have worked for a while on TV, did anyone successfully do this in a movie? Maybe I need to go back and rewatch "Traffic".


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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 05-05-2001 10:06 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I thought an early (meaning not as much movement) example of this type of camera work was in "Color of Money."

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-05-2001 01:23 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm sure the cameraman and the other makers of the show think it is a "talent". To me it is annoying. I don't know what effect it is trying to achieve. Perhaps they are trying to add "action" into an otherwise dull and lifeless show? I don't watch shows that do this because the camera is just too distracting.

Bad TV making at its worst.


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-05-2001 01:56 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, people consider spinning records back and forth for 1/4 turn to the beat of the music "talent", so why not call intentionally shaky camerawork "talent"? (By the way, I walked out of the room when ER first aired within 10 minutes because of that and refuse to give "Traffic" a chance. There is no need for that sort of camerawork. It is not cutting edge. It is crap.)

Ok Greg, what show is this?

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 05-06-2001 09:46 AM      Profile for Greg Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's Touched by an Angel, Brad. And, while that might not sound too exciting, the show was recently nominated for an "Outstanding Acheivement" award from the American Society of Cinematographers. Not too shabby. And we still get to do things like blow up buildings (tonight's episode) and sink buses into lakes (not yet broadcast).

Lots of people think that the Steadicam is a foolproof contraption and that the equipment does all the work. This couldn't be farther from the truth. A skilled Steadicam operator makes all the difference. He/She must have the grace of a ballet dancer and the stamina of a football player... along with solid photographic skills. I've been lucky to work with some great Steadicam/A-Camera operators who've taught me a lot. I've also worked with some great A-Camera operators who just never got into Steadicam work and never wanted to. And I've seen just a couple of guys who owned Steadicams but didn't really have the skills to use them correctly.


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Dave Bird
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 777
From: Perth, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 05-06-2001 03:04 PM      Profile for Dave Bird   Author's Homepage   Email Dave Bird   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A darned fine show, all the more pleasing with the STEADY camera work!

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-06-2001 05:00 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What is your role on the show, Greg? Do you make everybody log onto Film-Tech during the breaks?

Can you send me a free Steadicam? Certainly they won't miss it


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Randy Stankey
Film God

Posts: 6539
From: Erie, Pennsylvania
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-06-2001 08:32 PM      Profile for Randy Stankey   Email Randy Stankey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oh! There's a scarry thought!
Unleashing JOE upon the world with a Steadicam!

I can't even begin to imagine what kinds of things he would be photographing!


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-06-2001 10:18 PM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
And it would all be available for download here at Film-Tech!

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Jesse Skeen
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1517
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 05-07-2001 04:27 AM      Profile for Jesse Skeen   Email Jesse Skeen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So why haven't the people who work on TV shows complained about those atrocious network logos being on? I would not even allow something I shot to be on "America's Funniest Videos" with any logos on top of it!
I know reruns of "Touched by an Angel" are on that new "PAX" network on UHF, which shows the letters "PAX" in the corner in red, white and blue, ruining the color scheme as well as everything else about the picture as well!

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 05-12-2001 03:00 PM      Profile for Greg Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A lot of the guys I work with simply never watch network TV. They work long hours so there's not much time for it anyway. So... I never hear anyone complain about the network or local station logos in the corners of the screen. I think most of America is just used to seeing those things now.

There are a lot of steps between the camera and the actual broadcast of a show. So, by the time the images have been through post-production... and then the board operator at the network might decide to tweak it... and then the guy at the local station might tweak it... and then maybe the cable company tweaks it... so by the time it's broadcast into John Q. Gaffer's living room, he no longer expects it to look right anyway.


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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 05-12-2001 03:13 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As a graphic artist, I find all those station IDs and network IDs in the corner of the screen VERY ANNOYING. It wouldn't matter to me even if I were the one who came up with the logo. It just does not need to be there. I worry that a lot of that kind of logo misuse may be getting burned into a lot of archive footage, such as news story video.

To add my two cents in on the whole "Shakes, The Cameraman" style of cinematography, I find it to be really distracting. It is one thing to maybe have an occaisional subtle movement added to perhaps underline the immediate drama of a scene or to add a little more of a "documentary" style to the look of a show. But if you are doing that shifting handheld camera movement stuff all throughout a show, you're going to be making people at home motion sick.

I stopped watching "NYPD Blue" for this reason a long time ago. I also tuned out on "Homicide" because they were doing a lot of that shifty camera movement, as well as making weird non-linear edits in scenes all the time (I've seen that "cubist" form of filmmaking only work reasonably well in flims like "The Limey"). When I see that shifty camera movement going on all the time, I'm thinking this is a cheap production and the camera guy forgot his tripod, stands and dolly track.

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Greg Anderson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 766
From: Ogden Valley, Utah
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 05-13-2001 12:54 AM      Profile for Greg Anderson   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Anderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Is there an official purpose for the network/station logo on the screen throughout the program? If it's to remind the viewer which station he's watching, then they really do expect their audience to be dumb as lumber.

Is the purpose to discourage people from making video copies which aren't for private, in-home use? I mean, is that really a problem?

Is the purpose to increase the demand for professionally-produced video tapes and DVDs of network programs? I mean, if you just wait a few years you'll eventually get to pay real money to see stuff like The X-files or The Simpsons on DVD without a network logo!

(Apologies for keeping this thread going when it really seems to belong in the Yak section.)

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