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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Topic: SDDS / SRD reliability
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James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 06-05-2001 12:57 AM
Yeah, I have no problem with digital video if thats the best your budget allows, but to use it just to cut costs is plain rediculous. The bad part is that there are people who think it will be as good as film, but in reality, they might not have seen a DV movie transfered to film yet sine this has mainly been limited to the art houses and film festivals. I dont know of any big releases that have used digital video except SPY KIDS.I know a guy who i graduated from college with who made a pretty good quality 5 part movie (15 minutes each since it was run as a television series for our school's cable station). Our school uses mini DV cameras which produce really good video images on a TV screen, and based on this, cost, and efficiency, he said that when he starts making big movies he goig to use all digital. I was pleased, however, that at our annual leadership conference that two different people in two different meetings said "if you can shoot film, shoot film." At least someone in the video/film industry knows film isbetter besides just us.
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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99
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posted 06-05-2001 02:03 AM
I shoot in DV and I'm sure I would be horrified to see any of my creations transferred to film.Ken is right. Digital audio kicks ass. Most of the time. I don't really care for the digital EQing scheme in the latest processors from Sony and Dolby. There is just no way that you can achieve the same exact curve with digital EQ as with an analog EQ each and every single time. But that's a different story. The point I am trying to make is that people automatically associate the word "digital" with "the best it can possibly be". Have you seen ads for the latest TV hard disc recorders, etc? They advertise that they record up to 4 billion hours (or so) in "full digital quality". Well, since it's digital it must kick the living hell out of VHS! Nope. When you see the 4 billion hour low quality mode it's not even as good as Video CD. And Video CD is noticably worse than VHS (even worse than VHS in EP if you ask me, just due to the artifacting). MPEG sucks (MPEG 2 is better, but I can still see lots of artifacts on DVDs, especially in dark scenes). But its digital, right? So no matter how bad it is, it's still waaaay better than any analog recording device! "Digital" and "Digital Done Right" are two completely different things! Don't fall for a cinema processor just 'cause it says "digital processing" in the ads. That doesn't mean it will sound good. Audition it for yourself first!
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Tao Yue
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 209
From: Princeton, NJ
Registered: Apr 2001
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posted 06-05-2001 07:54 AM
The Nyquist Theorem is not generally taught in high school mathematics courses. It's usually taught in Electrical Engineering courses, and applies to digital sampling of audio. The theorem states that to accurately represent a continuous analog waveform using discrete samples, the rate of sampling must be twice the component frequency. For example, standard CD audio is sampled at 44.1 KHz, meaning that no sounds greater than 22.05 KHz are recorded. This is actually not caused by the sampling itself -- frequencies greater than 22.05 KHz would simply get distorted beyond recognition. (See http://www.opus1.com/~violist/help/nyquist.html for an example of what happens to a signal above half the sampling frequency.) The Nyquist Theorem is applied by using a low-pass filter to remove all frequencies above that threshold.However, it is not true, as Ken stated, that the waveform will be reproduced exactly. Take a sine wave sampled at exactly twice its frequency. Try it yourself -- instead of a curvy sine wave, you'll get a triangle wave. At 22.05 KHz, you'd be hard-pressed to notice the difference. Hook up a function generator to a set of headphones and compare low-frequency sine and triangle waves, though, and you'll notice a distinct difference. The Nyquist Theorem ensures an accurate epresentation of the signal, but "squaring the circle" (or in this case, triangling the sine) always occurs when trying to represent a continuous input discretely. -- Tao Yue MIT '04 Course 6-2: Electrical Engineering and Computer Science Projectionist, MIT Lecture Series Committee
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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 06-05-2001 10:02 AM
With digital imaging systems, a low pass filter is sometimes necessary to reduce "aliasing". In effect, if the system is allowed to be too sharp, it could be prone to annoying moire patterns. You can often see this problem in digital video when you have moire in finely-detailed patterned fabrics, picket fences, venetian blinds, screen doors, etc. For examples, see the thread where Evans Criswell discusses sampling frequency and aliasing.Any digital camera or projection system that uses a fixed array of pixels may suffer aliasing unless a low-pass filter or defocusing are used to minimize the risk of interference. Here are some links: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/digital/dlc/ http://www.spie.org/web/meetings/programs/or97/sc/or97_sc22.html http://www.imagingspectrum.com/portraitcomparison.htm http://www.kodak.com/cluster/global/en/service/faqs/faq1082.shtml ------------------ John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging Eastman Kodak Company Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419 Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243 E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99
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posted 06-05-2001 11:51 AM
Steve Guttag said in an earlier posting..... "So far, the only SR emulation that I have found pleasing is the Dolby CP-650...none of the other analog (including Dolby's CAT222SR/A) nor digital attempts sound good to me...very harsh and non natural. So far, the CP650 has been a pleasing sounding processor for both digital and analog....I was pleasently surprised."Steve, Give a listen to the Panastereo Processor with the new SR card. You'll be very surprised at how much better it sounds! Joe said "Too many people are wooed by the word "digital" these days. Just because it's digital doesn't mean it's good. Joe, you hit the nail on the head! Take the Panastero Processor for instance. Blows em all out of the water by a long shot. IMHO, Dolby should have and could have lowered the price of the CP650 substantially as it is far cheaper to mass produce than the 500 was. Mark @ GTS
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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 06-06-2001 12:45 PM
Ken --- the same EE communication theory that applies to digital images also applies to digital sound (e.g., low pass filters to reduce aliasing, Nyquist theorem, etc.).------------------ John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging Eastman Kodak Company Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419 Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243 E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
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