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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » A.I. prints tripping proxemity sensors on failsafes. (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: A.I. prints tripping proxemity sensors on failsafes.
Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-30-2001 12:35 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
John, is this the same process that was used on Sleepy Hollow as well? If so, I can inspect a print of A.I. and report back on that.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 06-30-2001 12:51 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad: You are correct. For "Sleepy Hollow", Cinematographer Emmanuel Lubezki said "we decided the movie should be slightly saturated and monochromatic. We went as far as seeing the color of the blood because with the process we chose -- it's called a CCE process (Color Contrast Enhancement) which is done by Deluxe Labs -- the color of red gets very desaturated and looks almost gray. So we had to figure out a color that would read red after the whole process. Tim (Burton) was very involved in all the tests."
Sleepy Hollow Cinematography

The special process used by Technicolor is known as "ENR": "Storaro pioneered use of the ENR proprietary process developed by Ernesto Novelli at Technicolor Labs in Rome. By leaving more silver in print film, the ENR process renders richer black tones. He applied this technique to footage of the actors, matching its look to archival imagery from the Russian Revolution. Since then, variations of ENR (such as bleach-bypass and silver-retention) have become commonplace at labs."
Storaro Article
Canadian Society of Cinematographers Article on ENR


------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Michael Elam
Film Handler

Posts: 84
From: Clarksville, IN, USA
Registered: Mar 2001


 - posted 07-02-2001 08:04 PM      Profile for Michael Elam   Email Michael Elam   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Another reason not to run Manually.....in a complex with even more than one screen, let's say 20, with one operator, He/she will not be around when that one machine needs to be shut down, the film will run out and the next thing you know we are buying new lenses, I see this every time when I am in a theatre even when their is no reason for it.
Somewhere, somehow, for some reason people are making decisions on their own to quit using cues, I always wonder what the Manager is doing, not paying attention to the booth that is for sure.

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 08-22-2001 11:11 AM      Profile for Jeffry L. Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Jeffry L. Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Apocalypse Now loses "motion" on the FM-35. The trailers run fine but the show stops as soon as the feature starts. During the first reel the "Motion" LED flickers on and off.

The last print I had serious problems with was A Hard Day's Night. The problem moves from screen to screen with the print, so it's not a specific failsafe problem.

Some shows will lose "Motion" and others will lose "Presence" but still indicate "Motion."

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Christopher Seo
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 530
From: Los Angeles, CA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-22-2001 03:13 PM      Profile for Christopher Seo   Email Christopher Seo   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well, both "Apocalypse Now Redux" and "Hard Day's Night" are on B&W stock, though the stock used for dye-transfer is apparently a special B&W stock.

Jeffry, did your print of "Apocalypse" come with an attached trailer? If so, was that trailer printed in dye-transfer along with R-1, or was it "regular" film spliced on? Did it have any trouble with the FM-35?

Hmm... does the show shut down if the FM-35 still has Motion but loses Presence?


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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 08-22-2001 04:55 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
>>Well, both "Apocalypse Now Redux" and "Hard Day's Night" are on B&W stock, though the stock used for dye-transfer is apparently a special B&W stock.<<

AFAIK, IB receiver stock and standard B/W print stock are basically the same, only real difference is that the B/w print stock has the silver across the entire width of the film and the receiver stock has the silver only in the soundtrack area.

and yes, BOTH of those stocks are going to cause trouble with unmodified FM-35's. Contact Component Engineering about upgrading those units, and send the old ones back for a $45 rebate per unit!

Aaron


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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-23-2001 08:37 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Aaron said: "AFAIK, IB receiver stock and standard B/W print stock are basically the same, only real difference is that the B/w
print stock has the silver across the entire width of the film and the receiver stock has the silver only in the
soundtrack area."

Both B&W print film and the stock used as the "receiver" or "blank" for dye transfer prints are silver-image films with the silver halide coated across the entire width of the film. Of course, with B&W prints, both picture and soundtrack are silver images, but with current dye transfer, the soundtracks are a silver image developed in a B&W developer, and the picture is dye transfer:
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/lab/so302.shtml
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/oldcolor/technicolor1.htm

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Eastman Kodak Company
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7419
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Jeffry L. Johnson
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 809
From: Cleveland, Ohio, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 08-25-2001 11:37 AM      Profile for Jeffry L. Johnson   Author's Homepage   Email Jeffry L. Johnson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The trailer and Miramax logo are not IB Tech, but "regular film". The attached trailer is not part of the presentation.

I have not observed the conclusion of the theater policy and start of the feature, so I do not know exactly when it trips. Based on my experience with this problem in the past, I suspect the show shuts down as soon as the IB Tech stock passes the FM-35.

The show will shut down at the loss of "Presence" as well as "Motion".

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-25-2001 11:54 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Out of curiousity: what's wrong with the microswitch type of failsafe? I haven't worked with the motion sensors, but they sound overly complicated and prone to failure. Does anyone make a failsafe with both microswitches and motion sensors that allows one to toggle between them depending on what works for a particular film?

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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 08-25-2001 12:53 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Usually, the microswitchs on failsafes need to be replaced once every two years or so, depending on use. They are only about $5 (in single quanities) and easy to get at, so it's not a hardship, but people like as few maintaince items as possible nowadays. It's easy to *think* that an electronic failsafe would be more reliable.

I've never seen both types on one assembly. At the place I'm working now, the bracket will hold either type, but only one at a time.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 08-25-2001 02:02 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Speco makes a failsafe that has the drop-down microswitch arms and metallic proximity detectors for the cues, a mix of the best of both worlds.

I personally have had NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER with the FM35 if it is one of the later ones, or a modified older one, They are great failsafes!

Aaron

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