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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Changeover cue dots. (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Changeover cue dots.
John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-18-2001 01:07 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Long ago and far away, in my own carbon arc days, I recall we were able to set the carbon feed speeds fairly accurately, so the proper position and gap were maintained without adjustment for the entire 20 minute reel. Our job responsibilities included "lot patrol" between reels, so we had to rely on the automatic feed accuracy. Problems of "purple screen" due to improper position were usually when we were using "carbon savers", or had not properly seasoned (dried) the carbons, so they burned erratically.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Josh Jones
Redhat

Posts: 1207
From: Plano, TX
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 09-18-2001 07:55 PM      Profile for Josh Jones   Author's Homepage   Email Josh Jones   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is quite a job to get them to burn dead on target for 20 minutes. because I am using old carbon that likes to sputter, the required speed varies just a little during the burn. I had one lamp adjusted so it would burn an entire positive carbon without adjustment, but when you changed carbons, it would dirft a little. I am using Peerless Magnarc type G lamps, John what were you using "back in the day"?

Josh


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-18-2001 10:56 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Spluttering carbons are often caused by either cracks in the core or moisture
Put them on a backing sheet in the oven at 350 for an hour and always keep the next trim lieing in the lamphouse to keep them dry

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000


 - posted 09-18-2001 11:57 PM      Profile for Bill Enos   Email Bill Enos   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm Still using Magnac Type E's. Running 8's and 7's at about 65 anps.One will hold the line for an entire hour and reel after reel, nothing seems to make the other hold for more than 35 to 40 minutes. need a cue cutter? Cardinal has some Clint Phare cue cutters left. They make near perfect cues, if you are VERY light handed and turn it no more than a quarter turn a green cue can be made. Carbons all seem to now be poor. Nationals run up and down in brightness like they have a dimmer inside with frequent flares to about 10 times normal. I guess the core is clumped. Marbles flicker a lot. I've roasted both at 250 to 350 degrees F to no avail. The demand probably isn't high enough for the manufacturers to give a damn about quality control.


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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000


 - posted 09-19-2001 10:53 AM      Profile for Leo Enticknap   Author's Homepage   Email Leo Enticknap   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I say keep the cue dots.

I've noticed that prints from French labs (LTC and Eclair mainly) never have lab-printed cue dots. As a result, they tend to accumulate multiple sets of 'do it yourself' ones pretty quickly, sometimes including holes punched in the film. But of course prints made in French labs tend to be arthouse titles if they make it to the UK, and it is precisely the arthouse titles which are most likely to be run with changeovers.

For mainstream Hollywood titles, you could probably get rid of the cue dots without many complaints. But I'm pretty sure that it's only projectionists who ever notice them systematically - I certainly knew nothing about them before I worked in the film industry. I've certainly never known a customer to complain about them. All it takes is one person taking a chinagraph pencil, craft knife or hole punch to the film stock and you'll risk dirt and scratching over 50-100 feet in total, which will eventually spread itself all over the print. IMHO, unnecessary cue dots are a minor irritation worth putting up with to avoid that.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 09-19-2001 12:57 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Josh asked: " John what were you using "back in the day"?"

At the drive-in, we had Ashcraft Super Cinex lamps, and used rotating National 11mm x 20 inch High Intensity carbons (L0109) for the positive, and 3/8 x 9-inch copper clad Orotip (L1124) for the negative. Sometimes used Lorraine carbons for the negative. Typically ran at 115 to 120 amperes. We got about 3 reels (1 hour) per carbon. Estimate we put out over 15,000 lumens for "scope" format.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-19-2001 10:05 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, John, At the outdoor, I used to run the carbon savers through the arc when it came to the last time to use the coupler. Had to keep my hand on the negative feed though, because sometimes they fell apart and the arc went out.

But, if you looked at the screen, you would say, "ooooo- look at the cool colors".

Paul


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Bruce Shinabarger
Film Handler

Posts: 7
From: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 09-21-2001 12:24 PM      Profile for Bruce Shinabarger   Email Bruce Shinabarger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John-
We also used 11x20 positive carbons at our outdoor. We were never
able to find couplers (but, plenty of Phillips savers) for that large
diameter of rod.

Did you ever use couplers in your old booth?



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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-21-2001 01:17 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've never seen "couplers"...wouldn't there be a sudden drop in light output when the join was reached?

Carbon savers are still common...I have occasionally filled in at the Cape Cinema (see picture gallery) where we use them with 7mm/6mm carbons in Peerless lamps.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-21-2001 03:02 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I like the 13.6 joinable carbons the best

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-21-2001 03:22 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott, to a point, yes. But most of the time you have to be there to make sure the coupler that you decide to run through the arc passes over the rod supports without hanging up.

If the spent coupler does not fall away, about the only thing you will see is just a sputter or two. (they do that, anyway from time to time). If the coupler gets hung up on the carbon feed, that is when you say, "Oooooo, look at the cool colors"

Gordon, yes. The 13.6 Black Stick you speak of is the best! No scrap!


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Bruce Shinabarger
Film Handler

Posts: 7
From: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 09-21-2001 03:39 PM      Profile for Bruce Shinabarger   Email Bruce Shinabarger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gorden-
Are those the rods with the threaded ends?

We used 11mm rods and could never find a way to join
them in a way that would work properly.

I tried every "McGuyver" trick I could think of...

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-21-2001 04:11 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bruce, with reference to the 13.6 black stick, they were a tapered fit.

The 11mm black stick - lots of scrap. I don't think there was ever a saver made for those because of the water-cooled positive contacts. It would have had to be something like Gordon was talking about.

I would never recommend running a saver coupling on the negative rod of the "Black Stick" lamps because of the roughly 45 degree off-set the negative rod has. If the coupler was to break away, it is big enough to bounce around on the lamphouse floor, and maybe land on the mirror and cause some damage.

Actually, it is not a good practice to do it on any lamp. We did it because we were just plain cheap!

Paul


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Bruce Shinabarger
Film Handler

Posts: 7
From: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 09-21-2001 05:26 PM      Profile for Bruce Shinabarger   Email Bruce Shinabarger   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, our "butt bucket" was always full at
the end of the season.

Although, we could get our pos rods down to
about 2" or so, basically, the width of the
water cooled silver "jaws", it still seemed like
a big waste of carbons.

Always wished we could have gotten some of the
tapered or threaded rods in 11mm, like others have
mentioned here.

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Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 09-21-2001 06:23 PM      Profile for Gerard S. Cohen   Email Gerard S. Cohen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
TO: Mike and Josh
My favorite "Projectionist leaning out the window" cartoon
shows a bleary-eyed bald head looking out the window at his smashed
eyeglassed fallen onto the ground below, while from the auditorium
come cries of "Focus! Focus!"

Back to Cue Marks:
I have a cue marker made {when?} by a projectionist of old from
a brass screen-door hinge, drilled and soldered with pins so that by
clamping it onto a strip of film it, with one snap it punched FOUR
perfectly-aligned tiny holes through the upper-right corner of four frames. Much faster than twirling a Pharo cue-marking stylus four times in its casting, and without the dust the Pharo created.

Back to carbons:
The mason jar of copper carbon drippings on my relic shelf
reminds me of the saving for the war effort in WWII, when they were
taken to the IATSE local office routinely. Post-war, some projectionists were unable to break themselves of saving them.
I remember working a temp in a 42nd Street booth (replaced by the
Disney-type chain stores) where holes in the booth's wallboard
were stuffed with kraft lunchbags, each containing copper drippings
no longer being collected, but "too valuable to throw away."
Gerard

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