Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Projection: Platter v. Changeover

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Topic: Projection: Platter v. Changeover - Opinion Poll

Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 10-26-2001 06:39 PM

Hey Will,
Have any pictures of that projector or booth? I have never seen one of those machines. I have the projectionists of the days of yore, as well as the modern day projectionists that give a damn. I would love to hear more stories about the old days, especially the pre/early sound era.

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Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 10-26-2001 11:51 PM

The only advantage I had with Change Overs was when this Indian Film Distributor wanted to show the same film in one Part of Aucland at a hour start time(1 print) Difference 7 kilometres from each other("Westside" Henderson and the "Crystal Palace" MtEden) well we worked it out that wouldn't work but they didn't listen ,so I started 8pm Sharp and after the first reel finished they had a Courier ready (there own people)they dashed off with the reel taking them 15 minutes to reach the Palace and so it went on (these films are normally 3 to 4 hrs long with a half hour interval , I think it cost them more in speeding tickets that the profit they made for the night.

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Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 10-27-2001 12:10 AM

Come to think of it ,one time when I was was abit worst for wear ,having a short doze to try and freshen up ,All I heard was the sound of the splice going through the Gate I knew I had 8sec to fire up the Carbons and get the machine rolling only abit of black on the screen , but this can be abit of a handicap if your watching some old film on TV and doze off and wake up to the sight of a Change over cue on screen , as it can get your heart pumping abit before you realise where you are .

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Bill Enos
Film God

Posts: 2081
From: Richmond, Virginia, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 10-27-2001 12:28 AM

I've never seen a film damaged by a machine, it takes somebody's lack of attention to detail to cause the machine to do damage.

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Don Sneed
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Texas City, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 10-27-2001 01:23 AM

The two strangest changeover system I ever saw, one in Houston, a single screen theater with (2) Peerless lamps they had a chain connected to the non-operating side of the lamp dowser, the chain ran to ther booth ceiling to the other lamp when the operator pull open one dowser the other would close, the Weaver C/O was not working..

The other was at a drive-in somewhere in Oklahoma, there was a board that slide in front of the projector port window, the operator would slide the board to block the port when change over, it worked !!

The best idea I saw was in Fort Worth Texas, at a large single screen GCC theater...the booth had Ashcraft carbon lamps, on the cables going to the lamp from the recitfier the operator install a small soft iron bar wrap around the one of the cables to create a electrolmagnet, below the cable was a bell with a small chain and a ball, when the operator struck the lamp, he would put the ball on the now magnet bar, the lamp ran at 135 amps, if the amperes got to 105 amps the weighted ball would drop, hitting the bell to alert the operator that he needed to trim the lamp, when hearing the bell, he would wake up, & get out of the loung chair, trim the arc, go back to sleep....cool idea !! not good for the people watching the show since the picture is turning dark, but good for the operator.

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Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 10-27-2001 01:36 AM

Movie going has changed alot since I was a kid (early 60s) TV was just making its appearance in NZ and you had to well off to afford one,this was a Place where you went for News ,Sports ,serials and of cause the Matinee, the presentation was not good ,rain (on prints),film breaks ,Carbons crashing ,Ice Cream in your hair and the comotion as the lights went down at the start of the session , which really was a Session then , Coming attracion slides ,the light show before the start ,standing for the National athem (getting slapped if you didn't)all the useless travelogues and then half time , then we start over again the light show ,curtain Call, then the scratchy feature starts and you notice the colour change with every change over ,well I think we have come along way since Mono ,Carbon Arcs and poor print quality , this is only a reflection of the suburban Cinemas though as the City or First release cinemas got the best prints and presentation, the point is some times we forget some things of the past and think that it was done better then ,this is in no way saying that I didn't enjoy those times ,one of our local cinemas had a Fire Station Behind it and a volunteer brigade ,when the siren went to call the Fireman the theatre was in an up-roar as the side doors were opened by the children and the fire engines cheered up the drive ,such memories I don't think you could get in your local Plex?

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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99

posted 10-27-2001 01:43 AM

quote:
I've never seen a film damaged by a machine, it takes somebody's lack of attention to detail to cause the machine to do damage.

The exception being poorly designed equipment, like the reel rewinders at the TFF. They DO damage film every time, gauranteed. I guess the same could be said for some crappy platter designs, but most of the current stuff is pretty "kick ass".

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Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 10-27-2001 01:47 AM

The strangest change over I have used was at the "Regent" Helensville this was a completely manual C/O as you had to close one dowser and open the other and use your knee to switch the sound to the incoming machine , quite an Art as if you did this too quickly you could break the mirror protectors and snap the Carbons, they had "West-Star" with peerlees Mag. and the sound was Valve tubes (mono) Scary !

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Craig Hanham
Film Handler

Posts: 79
From: Wellington, New Zealand
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 10-27-2001 04:32 AM

Well Paul and Don what you describe is still my reality.
Westrex c/o with Peerless arc lamps and the 'automation' is the aircraft wire from dowser handle to dowser handle via pulleys anchored to the ceiling. Only changed from the ORIGINAL Westar sound heads and amp and mono speaker a month ago (wanna buy

), got reverse scanning and CP65 now

.
But still manual sound changeover. I like it. It works. Its damn simple and easy to truoble shoot. Just dont pull the handle in a panic.

Hey Paul I bet I know which Indian film Distributor you are on about. Wish I knew about you a few months ago! email me.

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Don Sneed
Master Film Handler

Posts: 451
From: Texas City, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2001

posted 10-27-2001 08:29 AM

Hey Craig, it work, I just wish I would have thought of the simple idea & patient it, maybe I would not have to be working now...I would like to know when & who thought of this idea for a simple change over....

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Bob Healey
Film Handler

Posts: 93
From: Milford, CT
Registered: Sep 2001

posted 10-27-2001 10:43 AM

For C/O's, we have everything wired into a series of relays which are activated by a button on each projector. The motor and lamphouse dowser are seperate from this system. There are also manual overrides for everything except the input selector on our dolby unit, and that is only a matter of finding the time to wire it up.

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Craig Hanham
Film Handler

Posts: 79
From: Wellington, New Zealand
Registered: Oct 2001

posted 10-27-2001 06:36 PM

Don as far as I know my c/o system was thought up by whoever fitted the gear in the early seventies.
To me it looks like the sort of thing most stage techs. would come up with.
I have made simmilar set ups for all sorts of stage effects.
Basically KISS (keep it simple stupid)and refer to a 8 yer old if you cant come up with something.

:beer

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 10-28-2001 06:43 PM

Sorry, I am not able to post any photos of that particular machine. There are some photos in the pictures format (there are a few museums featured). According to the History of Simplex listed in the manuals forum, it is stated that the Kaplan was a direct copy of the Simplex Standard/Regular. Yes, it is true.

As far as being showmen--that is what the Projectionists of the silent era were! Imagine working in coordination with the organ player or orchastra to run the film. Hand cranking a full length feature and varring the speed according to the action and organ player--WOW! That handcranking bit will be sure to give someone Popeye forearms ! It is also an experience to swap the hand cranking from one arm to the other w/o varrying the speed! I have also heard many a story about how those old Projectionists lost their lives--or were badly injured due to nitrate fires--and how they went to extra length to ensure that a fire did not get out of hand. These are stories that I have been told.

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Carl King
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 199
From: Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 10-30-2001 08:28 AM

Right on, Joe.

It doesn't take an artist to run a booth. It takes a person of some skill and care. You don't have to be an Einstein(did I spell his name right?) but a few brain cells do help. Running a modern booth is short on physcial work but long on care and attention. Just about anyone can be taught in a short time to threadup and push the button but not everyone really cares about a good presentation. Those that do are worth their weight in gold. We all know that a good presentation is what the patrons pay for. Give it to them each and every time they put their butts in one of your seats and they will come back.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002

posted 01-07-2003 12:14 PM

This thread and many others have debated the merits of platters vs. changeovers. There seems to be general agreement that in skilled hands, either platters or changeovers can and do work fine without causing film damage. But there's a thread on rec.arts.movies.tech where 1 or 2 changeover diehards INSIST that platters destroy film, period, and therefore presentation quality has declined. They will not be persuaded otherwise.

I'm not trying to dredge up the platter vs. changeover debate here! So don't yell at me for bumping this up. [Wink]

But here's a question. Note that I'm talking mainly about mainstream, first-run theaters now, not specialty venues. Whether you are an advocate of platters or changeovers, in your unbiased opinion, overall, has the widespread use of platters improved onscreen presentation quality in comparison to the changeover days? Has onscreen presentation quality declined because of platters? Or has there been little or no change?

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