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This topic comprises 4 pages: 1  2  3  4 
 
Author Topic: Harry Potter Interval
Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 11-23-2001 07:38 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's got nothing to do with the orientation of the screen, simply the relationship between the projector and the tower.

Why is it senseless to put the tower behind the machine? We've a lot of theatres where this is the only location it could possibly go. I have a couple of places with platters behind the mech.

If the tower is located directly behind the machine, with the running side spools absolutely parallel with the film path of the mech, you can safely run with the spools full to capacity. If the tower is to one side, then it is virtually impossible to get the film path accurately enough aligned to allow you to run with full spools. I've tried all kinds of things over the years, but the bottom line is it won't work. I've tried to fix rollers to the tower, but that doesn't work as no two spools are identical, and most tower spools are warped to one degree or another, even when new. ( I recently rejected several Goldbergs that were delivered to one of my services, brand new and all were buckled, the replacements were only marginally better)

I am by no means recomending that spools be filled overfilled past it's flanges, you cannot do that on these large spools, it WILL fall off, get wrapped around the bearing assembly and make a right mess. I have on a couple of occasions, when running spools right to the edge or rotten close to it, attached several pairs of beer mats to the spool cheeks, as film can sometimes fall off a tower spool as it gets close to the edge, particularly if it's less than perfectly straight. The beer mats stop this from happening. Not something any right minded person would do everyday, but for the odd one off show it can help a lot.

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 11-23-2001 10:12 AM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In my opinion a good tower could have been designed without the need for spools, by having 36” diameter solid plates and removable 8” plastic cores for pay-off and take-up with an upright 3” wide bar on the nearside. Close guide rollers would then be possible.

Preferably the tower would be double- sided and supplied with 2 spares plates. A programme could still be moved to another screen when necessary.

It would all be possible, I have proved it by experimenting with a 22” diameter 6,000’ spooling off plate and a 4” plastic core. Works perfect, so how about a new Film-Tech Tower.

BTW in Sussex there is an old cinema from the silent days that has a Westrex tower situated the floor below under the tiny loft projection box.



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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 11-23-2001 10:50 AM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've never used a tower, but it seems like they would work best with projectors that have a pedstal design where the film could run directly behind, ie: like a Cinemecannica V5-8-9. If you tried to use a regular American design, the pedstal would block the film (especially for take-up) and you'd have to route it around somehow. I think Bernard had posted a picture of what I mean, but I can't find it.

The magazine (spool-box) doors on a Cinemecannica would work well, because the side flanges of the magazines are part of the door (rather than the fixed magazine), and so don't block the film. Although a Norelco AA2 has the right pedstal design, I don't think (trying to remember!) the magazine side flanges stay on the magazine, so don't allow the film to go straight back.

Towers seem like a way to keep your two projector c/o booth for one-off showings, but also make things easier for repeated showings.

One question, though; Could'nt the same thing be done with a regular platter? It does seem that towers take up less space, but since platters are avaible with smaller diameter decks, they might fit and avoid the problem of having to rewind.


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Greg Mueller
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1687
From: Port Gamble, WA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-23-2001 11:20 AM      Profile for Greg Mueller   Author's Homepage   Email Greg Mueller   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"..Although a Norelco AA2 has the right pedstal design, I don't think (trying to remember!) the magazine side flanges stay on the magazine, so don't allow the film to go straight back..."

What a lot of people did (unfortunately for those who wish to restore their Norelcos) is to cut a square hole in the back of the magazine to let the film pass into, and out of, to the rear of the machine. I have taken mine off completely even though someone had cut them previously. I use my tower directly behind the machine so the film doesn't have to go around corners. (Just a fetish of mine)

------------------
Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 11-23-2001 11:26 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Spot on John! They work best with a pedestal like the Westrex, there was a kit available to modify the pedestal, you fitted two 'up and over' guide rollers below the lamp house table, a roller on the top and bottom spool shaft, cut a slot in the spool boxes and away you go.

Yes the same thing could and has been done with a platter, but remember here in the UK where Westrex was king, platters are a fairly recent arrival. Towers have been in use for thirty or so years, the first platters arrived here in Scotland about half that length of time ago. A lot of theatres have towers which have been in service for years and years, and they either don't have the space or don't see the need to replace them with platters.

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 11-23-2001 01:52 PM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John, Picture of the Westrex Tower again if allowed.


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John Walsh
Film God

Posts: 2490
From: Connecticut, USA, Earth, Milky Way
Registered: Oct 1999


 - posted 11-23-2001 04:47 PM      Profile for John Walsh   Email John Walsh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, that's the picture I was thinking of...

Those aren't really magazines, just "plate" to hold a spindle, if reel operation is desired. Not even a exhaust duct for the lamp, which might not be allowed in some places in the US.

Does the pedestal hold the projector firmly enough to prevent vibration while running?

I didn't notice that (it looks like) the tower pivots 180deg so you can thread a show on the other side.

Are those speakers above the ports?

I did remember how clean the place looked.. hat's off to the gent(s) that work there...

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-23-2001 05:08 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nice picture! I've never seen a yellow-green booth interior before.

Does the film pass directly over the lamp exhaust on the middle machine? (I can't tell from the picture.) If so, doesn't that cause problems?

Also, it's interesting that the film is wound emulsion-in on the feed reels. In the US, at least, standard practice is for the feed reel to be wound emulsion-out and the takeup reel to wind emulsion-end. (Insert debate from Brad, Steve G. and John P. on proper winding practices here.)

What kind of bases are those? They're certainly not standard Century models...

As for fade-outs at reel changes: I'm pretty indifferent on this, but would tend to be against it for platter use. Improperly blooped splices would cause an annoying 'pop' in the soundtrack and most changeover houses (at least the ones that aren't using exciter lamp changeover) have a 'tick' or 'pop' at every changeover, too. Also, as a print makes its way among many booths and an array of platter systems, large reels, and small reels, frames tend to get lost in the process ("film done wrong") and fade-outs would become cuts. Finally, there's the problem of making poor lab work more obvious, since 'black' tends to appear slightly different on each reel of a film...yeah, I know it "shouldn't" happen, but it does...


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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 11-23-2001 07:13 PM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Scott: Unless there is another way that a tower reel can handle an S-wind without extra rollers all over the place, thats about the only practical way to wind it to a tower. I have never worked with a Sword or DBL-MUT, maybe they roll emulsion out on feed?

The pics of the original carbon booth in Fortuna are a funky mix of yellows greens and blues!


-Aaron

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 11-23-2001 07:24 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
I still fail to see why the upper and lower magazine rollers could not be used to twist the film 90 degrees (more or less) so that the tower is placed to one side or the other of the projector. So long as the rollers feed into and out of the projector straight up-and-down (not that foolish forward slung 45 degree angled typical setup), the winding should not make a bit of difference...and you could wind with the emulsion either orientation. This isn't rocket science here.

Below is the best way to set up the rollers:

Below is the severely outdated way to set up the rollers (due to magazines and techs who can't seem to change their ways). This sort of configuration also wears out the threading leader three times as fast. Clearly no thought has been put into this.

So Pete, are you telling me that if the rollers were set up according to the first picture that the tower would be fussy? No way.


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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 11-24-2001 03:10 PM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
John said: Yes, that's the picture I was thinking of...
I did remember how clean the place looked.. hat's off to the gent(s) that work there...

Scott said: Nice picture! I've never seen a yellow-green booth interior before.
......................................................................

Thanks for the compliments, the pictures of the projection box are of my cinema the Regal in Cranleigh, Surrey situated in a village 8 miles from Guildford where Odeon have a multiplex, and 42 miles from London. I have owned the freehold for the last 24 years, but sadly next year it will close and be demolished, as it is no longer viable due to ongoing building repairs and running costs. There is just not sufficient population to support it any longer, even for Harry Potter now showing on the release date. Apart from myself running the box, I am most fortunate to have a team of four fully experienced and dedicated part-time projectionists.

Now to answer the questions:

The pedestal bases are the famous Ross make, whose projectors were widely installed throughout the UK many years ago. They are very strong and firm, and will support any make of projector head without any vibration problems whilst running. Before the Tower was installed they were used with 6,000' reels.

The Tower is double sided and does revolve into position to show another programme, you can also rewind during projection. It is also on 8 caster wheels and can easily be moved into position behind No 2 projector.

The three speakers above the ports, well you've guessed it, stereo in the projection box, and with surrounds! On the far right of the picture out of view there is a very large port and a nice chair, which also has a set of stereo speakers and where the monitor amplifiers rack is. We have often been told that we have better quality stereo sound in the projection box than some cinema auditoriums. This is nothing new I know of a couple of other places this has been done, one being the old Leicester Square Theatre (now Odeon West End) in London.

The film does pass directly over the lamp exhaust. It is a large and high ceiling room, which is well ventilated. It does'nt appear to have ever caused any problems. Xenon bulbs were 1.6 kw but now increased to 2 kw.

Films were always wound emulsion-out only on Simplex projectors in the UK. I have no idea what the standard practice is now with platters.

I was told in my trainee days that a green decorated room eased the eyes and reduced tiredness, but made the place look smaller.



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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-25-2001 01:18 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Post some pictures in the warehouse of the theatre and auditorium as it appears to be a Class Act

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Bernard Tonks
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 619
From: Cranleigh, Surrey, England
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 11-25-2001 04:24 PM      Profile for Bernard Tonks   Email Bernard Tonks   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Never gave that a thought Gordon, I will submit some pictures in a few weeks time. Don't seem to remember any in the warehouse from the UK apart from the Empire Leicester Square, London.


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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 11-26-2001 04:50 AM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As Soon as i find a tape measure i will have a measure of our reels.

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Ben Wales
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 602
From: Southampton. England
Registered: Jul 99


 - posted 11-26-2001 06:54 AM      Profile for Ben Wales   Email Ben Wales   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have ran the Westrex Towers both behind and off centre, ie by the side or even behind the mech side.

I can say if set up correctly, it is pssible to run film up to the edge of a full spool from the side, with EXTRA care!.
that was with a Kalee 21 and a Kalee 37.

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