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Topic: Pro-35 film shaking on screen

Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-08-2002 05:38 PM

Don indeed makes an excellent point. Provided you've made sure there aren't any half frame splices at the head of the reel, you should rarely have to use that framing knob. It is sometimes unavoidable when subtitles and poor labwork come into play, but otherwise, just work to make sure you, and anyone else that uses the projector, thread the film properly every time.

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Alan Gouger
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 501
From: Bradenton, FL, USA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 01-08-2002 09:25 PM

Im glad to hear good things about the pro 35. I just bought 4 of these at a good price. All in good working condition.

Question: Can a curved gate be purchased for these?
Ive had better luck with overall focus using curved gates.

Any input appreciated!

Thanks!

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-08-2002 10:02 PM

I have not heard of a curved gate specifically for the PRO-35. Josh Jones knows of a Ballentyne 70 in one of the theaters he worked at, and I have seen that machine. I don't know if it had a curved gate or not, but I think it does.

. Maybe he can answer that.

Paul

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-08-2002 11:30 PM

Paul,
The bearing that Strong specifies for the outboard intermittent assy is an ABEC 7 Barden bearing. If you know where to get that bearing for 7 bucks let me know please!!! Perhaps there is a surplus store near you that has them. Although you can forgo replacing the shafts(Shutter and sprocket) in an old Ballantyne it is the correct thing to do when you pile alot of years on them. Simply replacing the seal and letting it run against a shaft that has a groove chewed into it form 15 years of running is not the right thing to do. It WILL wear the new seal out alot faster.
Steve,
At least the Century movements don't have those stupid small fibre gears to strip out....Granted, it is really a fuse system of sorts that keeps the star in one piece in a pile up though.
Mark @ GTS

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-09-2002 12:01 AM

Mark, are you speaking of the bearing in the black outboard arm, or the orginal silver one? I have two bearings for the silver ones, I got them about three years ago from my wholesale bearing dealer. Price may be higher now, but I don't think they would exceed 12 bucks each now. I'll re-price them to see what they are.

This past Holiday Season, Josh and I had an old Simplex E-7 we tore down and cleaned up. We had to buy three bearings for it, and the total price (retail) for the bearings was about 40 bucks with tax. The small bearing on the front end of the shutter shaft was the most expensive, maybe 15 bucks or so, maybe a little higher. The other two big ones were about normal for what you would expect. If we have had to get these bearings from a theater supply house, they would have cost us an arm and a leg, plus shipping.

I am not bashing Strong International, but it seems like some of things they sell have an unreasonable mark-up. Like micro-switches for 40 bucks a pop when you can get the same ones from other sources for 1/4 that amount.

Yes - the oil seal thing you are mentioning - I only had a groove wear on the real old shafts, that were standard issue with serial no's in the low three digits. (under 200). I never had a problem with the newer ones grooving out. But it is easy to install the seal so it does not ride in the groove. Beats buying another shaft.

Biggest problem I saw with seal changes is getting the new seal over the lip of the shaft without damaging the seal. I have ruind a few seals out of laziness. A special inserter can be easily made by a machine shop to prevent the damage.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-09-2002 09:08 AM

Even though it looks straight the Pro 35 gate uses the same radial curve that Motiograph did. A very small amount of curvetowards the lamp put in the lateral plane not vertical like most other gates

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99

posted 01-09-2002 10:54 AM

Paul,
When you re-price the bearings be sure to get the Barden price as thats what the spec calls for. I believe its the same bearing on both the new or the old arm assy. Using any bearing less than an ABEC 7 in that spot will allow for sloppy tolerances on the outboard splien shaft and possible image unsteadiness. A lesser grade bearing also won't last as long. All the other bearings in the head are quite inexpensive though. I definately agree with you on the older serial number machines. In past years these are the one I most often encountered, and many were in the shoop for total rebuilds. I have seen later date machines break star wheels though. These were machines that did not have a projectionist attending to them either. The upper and lower shaft are about 120.00 each and the shutter shaft a bit less. Yes, a thin tapered metal cover slid over the ends of the shafts makes assembling them a cinch. Also use a light coating of approved silicon grease(that won't swell the rubber up) on the new "O" rings when you re-intsall the bearing caps into the main casting. If you install them dry it will ruin them. With all new seals and new "O" rings installed properly the machine can be made practically leak proof for a long time as was intended.
I too actually like the Ballantynes quiote a bit. I'm going to be installing an 8 perf 70mm head in a couple of months.
The odd thing is that the Pro 35 coupling/framer is based on the Phillips FP-20(which Ballantyne used to distribute). Its just that Phillips did it right and Ballantyne didn't. Had Ballantyne used a bronze coupling like Phillips did it would last almost indefinately.
Mark @ GTS

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 01-09-2002 12:16 PM

Thanks for the info, Mark. I'll look into that bearing situation. When I ordered them, we just used the number off the old bearing.

Actually, a couple of other things of general info about the frameing coupler:

Make sure that it is inserted correctly. Some people don't know the grooves in the bobbin have an opposite twist. I know of one idiot that didn't know that, and drove the damn thing in with a hammer. It not only busted the bobbin all to hell, and it also damaged the intermittant spline shaft. A good way to determine the right end is to put the coupler on the intermittant sprocket shaft, and then insert the whole thing in the projector casting "very carefully". Don't pull it in place with the screws, you might warp a shaft if you try that. Also, before you insert it, loosen the outboard bearing adjustment a little.

If you rebuild your own couplers, be sure to inspect the thrust bearings and washers inside the coupler. The washers could be worn into a groove. Replace them if they are. As a rule of thumb, I order new thrust bearings and washers when I rebuild a coupler.

When you assemble the coupler, don't screw the end cap in too tight. It'll bind your new bearings, leading to an early failure. I set mine to thumb nail tightness after I oil the coupler up nice and oozy, then back off until the bobbin turns without and noticable drag. Usually, that back-off is less than the thickness of a red hair. (ahem) I have had good luck doing it this way, and if anyone has a better way, please let me know.

Mark's comment about using a thin coat of specified grease on the "O" rings is an excellent idea.

Paul

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 01-16-2002 10:14 AM

Alan Gouger said: "Im glad to hear good things about the pro 35. I just bought 4 of these at a good price. All in good working condition."

Did those come from the old Hoyts Cine-8 on Ridge Road West in Rochester? They go back a ways, but they were well cared for.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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