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Author Topic: Basic questions about focus
Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 01-16-2002 01:15 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I find the best way to focus is with a set of opera glasses and focus on the film grain

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 01-16-2002 03:37 PM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
Okay, so maybe a mile and a half is a bit of an exaggeration. I guess I'll have to count ceiling tiles tomorrow.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 01-16-2002 03:54 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As I noted, having a geared motor on the focus knob, remote controlled from the front of the auditorium, is a great way to focus precisely. Our screening rooms at Kodak use either small selsyn or geared bi-directional DC motors.

I recall that a Scandanavian company had developed an automatic focusing device for 35mm film projectors that optimized focus by using a CCD camera to view a small portion of the screen image and adjusted focus to maximize fine detail in a fourier transform of the image data.

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 01-16-2002 05:35 PM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, so I rambled on a little and could have added more stuff...thanks to the other members for filling in.

One note about binaculars. The early XLs had a binocular attachment for focusing. It is shown in one of the XL manuals on Film-Tech. I do know someone who has a old/spare/black XL with this attachment and it does look interesting. I really could not "play" with it since the head is not in service. Does anyone have opinions regarding this attachment, and should similar accessories be made available with modern equipment?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-16-2002 07:04 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The "Screen Scope" as the device for the Simplex XL is known, was actually quite good and I would love to still see available today. The Senator theatre in Baltimore has one and uses it...it is quite nice.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 01-16-2002 10:04 PM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I read about the Screen Scope in the XL manual. I can't picture how it works. Is it moutned to the projector and you just look through it at the screen?

About using binoculars to check your focus: How do you know your binoculars are in focus!?

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This one time, at Projection Camp, I stuck a xenon bulb....

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 01-16-2002 10:07 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken asked: "About using binoculars to check your focus: How do you know your binoculars are in focus!?"

You should be able to focus the binoculars on the screen perforations.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 01-17-2002 01:46 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the rep house business, we get prints in every imaginable condition: prints made up from different prints, prints that have so much curl in them that it's a wonder ANY part of the picture can stay in focus (we ran a print of FORBIDDEN PLANET where on some reels I had to continually rack the focus back and forth to keep the actor who was speaking in focus -- this across a CinemaScope width for three showings was no picnic), prints that had some reels on estar stock and some on acetate (this particular print also had alternating reels of Dolby A and SR). For this very reason, SOP is to check focus on EVERY reel. I never put in 6000ft reels, much to the whining of some projectionists. Why? because at the very least, if he's running 2000ft reels, it forces him to LOOK at the screen every 15-18 minutes. With long play reels, a guy gets it in his head that he can relax for 60 minutes, so there is much more of a tendency to think "I've got nothing to do for the next hour." Of course these are single screen booths, not multiplexes. I have the utmost sympathy for multiplex projectionists.

In commercial theatres the situation is often ALL the reasons you guested at, and then some. A projector can't focus itself. Or if the guy who eventually is sent up after a complaint is not trained to know what to actually look for when focusing, it can be a worthless exercise. We all assume because we have been doing it for years that focusing self-explanitory. But just think of the process you go through when you focus. If you reallly think about it, it's fairly complex. You are looking for specific visual elements that are easy to judge. It isn't just a matter of twisting a knob and guessing at it. But guaranteed, that's pretty much all some concessions kid will do. And an element that can't be ignored here is the person's eyesight. How good or how bad is it? I know plenty of people who don't wear eyeglasses or contacts who have very poor eyesight. It may be one of these who is sent up to the booth to fix a focus complaint.
For many years I have worn an Olimpus Binocular around my neck almost all of the time I am in the booth; it's the best way to focus. Using them makes focusing a piece of cake and there is never any question when you are in -- it is like you are standing 5 feet from the screen. Doesn't matter how good or bad your eyes are. I only need these, however when I an in the smaller venues. In the big 2500 seat house, my XLs have focus scopes -- they are mounted on the side of the lens holder and you look down into it and you see a portion of the screen magnified -- a sort of built in monocular on each machine. Bet you guys haven't seen that in awhile. Why they are not part of every projector design is a mystery.

Barring a focus scope on every projector, they at least should have a pair of binoculars in every booth and teach those booth attendents to use them when they go up to correct a soft picture that a seeing patron has complained about.

Frank


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Rory Burke
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 181
From: Burbank, CA, USA
Registered: Jun 2000


 - posted 01-17-2002 11:08 AM      Profile for Rory Burke   Email Rory Burke   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Im sorry about the focus problems......its seems that a great theater can almost surely have the presentation ruined by such a trivial thing as bad focus.
I say its mainly bad operators who dont take pride in their work and pace around the booth checking and double checking the sound and picture quality constantly. Previuosly as a technician/engineer for an all THX theater chain these were the rules for booth operation.

Every FIVE minutes the movie must be checked in every auditorium for focus and sound anomalies. We would not tolerate anything less!! The exception of course was that projectionist may take the time necessary to allow for proper threading and starting of shows and breaks/ lunch etc. If there was no break or a movie to thread...then they would HAVE to pace around the auditorium every FIVE minutes. Along with booth checks we also had a policy of physical auditorium picture/sound checks to say that projectionists were expected to enter an auditorium every 1/2 hour or and double check the picture and sound quality from the perspective of the movie goer. This practice worked tremendously. Theater managers were able to record or log less presentation complaints throught the chain as a whole. Thank God for hard work paying off!!!!!

As far as a simple problem as focus however, the movie patron should note this once a complaint has been made to the management.
Proper focus occurs when the lens is at the critical distance to the film <or focal point>. In my chain I would teach this method to focus.

Since the focal point is a critical distance....a projectionist must go from one extreme of unfocus passing the focal point and reaching the other extreme of unfocus. In this way and only in this way can one trully notice when the picture goes from bad to good to bad again making it easier to notice the true point of best focus. Then he/she can trully make a note as to when the picture was at its best possible point of focus. A move goer should notice the picture get out of focus....pass the best point then get out of focus again only to return to the correct spot. Psychologically this tells the movie goer that a TRUE effort has been made in attempt to focus the picture.
I have had great results with this simple method and thus complaints have greatly decreased as a whold. Lastly, I feel projectionists must be tested periodically as to what good focus looks like....The notion that perfect focus is obvious to everyone is taken for granted to much and is part of the problem. Do projectionists really know what great focus looks like? Sometimes it remains to be verified and I have run into this quite more often than I would care to admit. I happen to be 20/300 in my right eye....and I would bet that I can achieve better focus than your typical projectionist anyday. Sad isn't it? For me or for the projectionist? HAHAHA!!!

Rory

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 01-17-2002 11:58 AM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks for all the great replies. To a person who loves going to the movies, getting the focus as right as possible seems so basic that I can't believe the major chains wouldn't have some very strict procedures in place. This extends to related issues like cleaning the booth glass regularly too (BOTH sides!).

For the record, both my eyes are around 20/350, but are corrected to 20/15 with gas-permeable contacts (20/15 is "better" than 20/20 for distance -- razor sharp).

Where I used to work, we had a ceiling-mounted D-ILA projector in a large multi-media demo room. It had remote-operated focus. The best method of focusing for me was to stand very close to the screen and get the individual pixels as sharp as possible.

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- dave
Crab juice, or Mountain Dew?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 01-17-2002 12:26 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
David said: "The best method of focusing for me was to stand very close to the screen and get the individual pixels as sharp as possible."

Some might argue that you should slightly DEFOCUS the digital projector, so the pixel pattern is not as obvious.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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