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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Is digital sound worth it for me? (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Is digital sound worth it for me?
Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-14-2002 06:17 PM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There is simply no good reason for first run theaters getting DTS prints to not get discs. On most of our agreements with studios, we have signed to make one disc per print.

Always remember, the discs belong to the studios, not to DTS. If a studio decides not to let us send a disc, that is their call (even though we'd love nothing more than send a disc to everyone that needs it). We will do all we can to get discs to all theaters that need them.

Karen at DTS

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Will Kutler
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1506
From: Tucson, AZ, USA
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 02-14-2002 07:58 PM      Profile for Will Kutler   Email Will Kutler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Karen,

Question for you....why are DTS discs not sent out w/prerelease promos and special screenings? I showed many a promo and was forced to run on a DTS house because of scheduling, etc, and discs were NEVER sent out w/proms...only on actual release date!

As for the answering the actual question topic of this thread....

1)How many screens do you have and what are your revenues?

2)Can you afford to have a tech come out every 6 months or so and eq the screen?

3) Where are you located...are you in the-left-hand-side-of-the-middle-of-nowhere....what would it take to get a tech out to you in case of emerengcy?

there are probably other questions to consider. What do you charge for tickets? Digital sound and its maintenance may increase your operating costs, and this may have to be passed along to your patrons...listen to and poll your patrons...are they willing to pay more?

There is no reason why you cannot get excellent sound with an analog LED set up...if you choose digital, my first choice is Dolby, because for one reason,it is the most universal of all the formats, then I would choose DTS...

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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 02-15-2002 07:18 AM      Profile for Ray Derrick   Email Ray Derrick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad A, the sad truth is that the vast majority of the population cannot tell the difference between digital sound and analog sound, provided the analog is played on a well aligned, fine slit soundhead with a top quality analog processor. And most of the remainder aren't interested anyway - they're there just to enjoy the movie, not marvel at the technology (just ask any of my three daughters).

All the fine detail, like better channel separation, occasional stereo surround effects or louder "bangs" is something that WE pick up on, appreciate and are tuned into, because it is what WE do. The success of digital sound is due more to the advertising hype, the lack of well aligned, well maintained optical systems and the fact that digital installations also usually get new bigger and better amplifiers and speakers, than it is due to any real or perceived improvements that the digital technology itself may offer. It is afterall the same soundtrack, just treated a little differently.

I have lost count of the number of times I have witnessed patrons leaving a well equipped cinema in which movie has been playing in analog and when asked "what did you think of the digital sound" they say "it was really great"! This has become a standard joke for certain projectionists I know in Australia.

So as others have said, get your analog top notch before even thinking about digital. The small percentage of people who can tell the difference probably would not come to your cinema anyway, even if you did have digital, because if you are still running mono (gasp), then it is highly likely the rest of your presentation is a bit lacking as well.


------------------
Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935


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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-15-2002 01:58 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Karen,

I understand that the DTS disks belong to the studios. But since it is in your interest as a company to make sure that EVERY theatre having DTS systems gets disks to play with their prints, I'm surprised there isn't some kind of a deal whereby you would have some extra sets on hand to send out to theatres that need them at your discretion? I suppose there is some copyright-related reason why this can't be done, but it would seem to be a good idea.

Actually I feel like some people must be overstating the problem of not getting disks. 50%? I get prints from Technicolor just like everyone else, and we have less than 1% of prints arrive without disks. (ETS is the same, but since they're more regional, we could just be in a more dependable area.) On the very rare occasions I have been unable to get disks by calling TES, I almost always have been able to them by calling DTS direct.

I think that if a theatre company started getting billed, say $100 for every set of disks not returned, the problem would end overnight. TES scans the disks into the cans, so they must scan them back into the warehouse again. A billing system would be simple and would result in a nice little temporary windfall for the studios.

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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-15-2002 07:43 PM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As mentioned previously on other threads, the discs do not belong to DTS, they belong to the studios/release company. It's that simple. Most times, we can deliver discs over night.

As far as screenings or reviews, if discs are ready and the studio requests it, we can provide discs for the screenings.

Karen at DTS

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 02-15-2002 09:52 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Pitch this idea to the studios next time you're "chatting" with them Karen. I would gladly make available the dts discs via download free of charge to everyone during the theatrical engagement. There is almost always someone (even if it is an usher) who has a high speed internet line with a cdrom burner and that would solve a LOT of problems.

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-16-2002 03:43 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ray

I do not completely agree with you.
I agree with you that a good "analog" theater can sounds better than a cheap "digital" theater.
However I believe that a good "digital" theater sounds much better than a good "analog" theater.
It depends also to the film you are watching: a comedy will sounds the same in both systems, a Sci-Fi movie will not!!

Bye
Antonio

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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 02-16-2002 05:26 AM      Profile for Ray Derrick   Email Ray Derrick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Antonio

Sorry, I obviously didn't make myself clear. I am not saying that digital does not sound better than optical. I was simply stating my observations and experience regarding the majority of the cinema-going audience.

My personal opinion as a "professional listener" is that DTS is by far the finest sounding, most accurate film sound system, and it does offer very low noise, discrete channel separation and extended dynamic range, not to mention relative freedom from playback system deficiencies, all of which optical film sound cannot offer. But these are things that you and I know.. the problem is the average cinema-goer either cannot tell the difference or doesn't care.


------------------
Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935


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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 02-16-2002 08:21 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ray,

I mean that to a medium movie-goers a good digital theater will sounds better than a good analog theater...
Ok, there are a LOT of people that doesn't care, but I believe that most of them at least recognize that (good) digital theaters "sounds better". They don't know why, they don't know how, but I believe that they recognize the differences.
I agree with you that most of them don't find differences between Dolby and DTS.. That is why I show the DTS logo at the start of each DTS encoded movie... I believe that the difference is in that logo...

However I think that at the base of this conversation there are GOOD installation that, in my town, in my country, are very hard to find.
So usually in italy a good theater has a very good Digital system while a bad theater has a very bad analog system... In that situation customers WILL hear the differences...

Bye
Antonio

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Ray Derrick
Master Film Handler

Posts: 310
From: Sydney, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 02-16-2002 04:38 PM      Profile for Ray Derrick   Email Ray Derrick   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok Antonio, I assume you run a top notch digital theatre so try this little test some time: Make sure your reverse scan analog system is correctly aligned and then run a film with a well mixed soundtrack in Dolby SR. Then stand at the door as your patrons are leaving and ask "what did you think of the digital sound?" I will bet you pounds to peanuts that almost all of them will either say that it was great (or some similar superlative), or that they didn't take all that much notice (the latter comment particularly from women, who seem to be generally less interested in such things). Of course there will be some folk who will say "that wasn't digital" but you will find only a few in an average crowd.

BTW I should correct one previous statement that I made. I said that in my opinion DTS is the best sounding film sound system, but I meant "commonly available" film sound system. IMHO there is nothing that even comes close to a Dolby SR encoded 6 track mag soundtrack.

------------------
Ray Derrick
President/Chief Engineer
Panalogic Corporation Sydney, Australia
Phone: 61 (0)2 9894 6655 Fax: 61 (0)2 9894 6935


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-16-2002 06:55 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ray said"BTW I should correct one previous statement that I made. I said that in my opinion DTS is the best sounding film sound system, but I meant "commonly available" film sound system. IMHO there is nothing that even comes close to a Dolby SR encoded 6 track mag soundtrack."
Well I think 35mm 6 track full coat is the best with or without Noise reduction
And actually one of the best I heard used DBX on the dubber but I cant remember the model of the DBX card that replaced the cat22's

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 02-16-2002 10:30 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon wrote:
>Well I think 35mm 6 track full coat is the best

Given that nowadays it's coming from a digital source whether it actually sounds better I cannot say. It's certainly more **fun** to run just on principle somehow. Running the workprint of "Moulin Rouge" with the clever opening fading in on the theater proscenium and the guy vigorously "conducting" the 20th Century Fox Fanfare ("with CinemaScope extension") was especially good fun. I did a couple of 6-track unmarried screenings last Sunday night in fact.

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 02-17-2002 06:08 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are a couple factors on whether a 6-track Dolby SR mag audio track is better than a 5.1 digital track. If the source material was made in digital form (particularly in 20-bit or 24-bit) then the digital audio versions might actually sound better. They'll at least have as much headroom if not more than Dolby SR.

Dolby SR mag is better than regular 16-bit LPCM in every way. But when you jump up to something like 20-bit digital, particularly with the uncompressed 20/48 LPCM 5.1 audio on some DLP shows, there is the potential to surpass Dolby SR mag.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 02-17-2002 06:25 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sure...but if we're talking about the regular digital formats then perhaps the SR Mag would be a better transfer of the 20 or 24 bit digital than would a highly compressed 5.1 digital track. Who knows.

Some field preview work is now being done with digital dubbers--still shaft encoder driven.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 02-17-2002 10:13 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yah we are doing a gig right now that is doing its final mix down in a comercial theatre and the recorder is the AKAI digidubber hard disk running off biphase tach along wiht the 12 twin magnatechs that are the source of each of the stems

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