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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Troubles with Christie's rectifiers (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Troubles with Christie's rectifiers
Giorgio Volpi
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: Caracas - Venezuela
Registered: Mar 2002


 - posted 03-19-2002 04:56 PM      Profile for Giorgio Volpi   Email Giorgio Volpi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think IREM is one of best rectifiers.
If my company decides to change rectifiers I'll advise them to use IREM.
I hope we can meet a day ....

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-19-2002 08:07 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm actually partial to Christie rectifiers and much prefer them (and most anything) to IREM. I find IREM has too much ripple. I can often get a lamp to nearly double it's normal hours when burned on a Christie rectifier.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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German Marin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 227
From: Verbania (VB), Italy
Registered: Jul 2001


 - posted 03-19-2002 11:40 PM      Profile for German Marin   Email German Marin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've ever work with Christie's Projectors and I've been thinking work with Christie is a fast way to learn about "how to rapair projector's problems" and "how fast run the technician to the theatres" (I like to see the problems from a nice sight 'cause it's the best way to understand it ).
Now I feel like a son and his father by his side. (I Thank you for all the knowledge I've get from you).

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 03-20-2002 12:36 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have to side with Steve on this one. I personally found the IREM power supplies are basically just "too dirty" with ripple to suit me.


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Pete Naples
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1565
From: Dunfermline, Scotland
Registered: Feb 2001


 - posted 03-20-2002 03:11 AM      Profile for Pete Naples   Email Pete Naples   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
WOW! It never ceases to amaze me how things differ! I wonder if the high ripple you guys experience from IREM rectifiers has anything to do with the different voltage/frequency? In much the same we that we have loads of trouble with US made transformers/motors etc? I can't say I've ever had high ripple problems from IREM, but Christie! O yes! I repaired one last week that had blown two main diodes (gone short) and in turn took out lots of wiring and some Zeners in what I acn only surmise is the snubber network (the book that ths site has for these is not exactly what you'd call detailed). Anyway after replacing the diodes, re-wiring all the vapourized stuff and renewing the various Zeners and caps, it works once more. BTW Those Christie rectifiers are much heavier than they look! I measured the ripple and got 3.85%, which I feel is quite high for a 3 phase unit. Measured the other 11 in that building and they were all around the same. An IREM that I was servicing the following day measured 1.5%

Could the single smoothing capacitor in those 12 Christies be going soft? They've been in use since the mid '80s.

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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 03-20-2002 07:39 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
IREM has many grades of rectifiers and I usually order the unit with the optional filter choke to improve ripple. Some customers also prefer if we replace the diodes to a larger value based on local requirements which we do prior to shipment. They have changed some of their manufacturing technic in recent years to where we have had some problems with crimp connections leading to the transformer wiring failing due to overheating. The factory is very responsive to maintinance issues and I had Ricardo Croce, Vice President of IREM, visit our sites regarding a problem which he found that the console manufacturer had specified the wrong grade of rectifier for the intended use....they took it upon themselves to replace the units free of charge and repremand the console manufacturer. Typical problems generally are the contactor ( which is readily available in most markets ) and diodes improperly installed by local service people ( cold solder joints on wire leads, no heat sink compound, improper torque in installing the diode ).
Other rectifier stories.....the imfamous earlier switching supply from Strong with the high failure rates....thankfully retired with a new design which the few that I am using for problem spots are working fine...many of the earlier design where taken to the trash dump. Kneisley we had some problems which was traced to improper amount of winding on the transformer which then 85 year old ( and departed ) Richard Kneisley personally took apart to solve the problem; he visited the cinema a few months later to see if the customer was happy.........
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre & Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-20-2002 09:33 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have actually had the opportunity to measure the ripple and inrush of many different rectifiers. I use an ORC ripple/inrush meter to do this. As I have had the chance to compare this to the industry standard that Osram uses I know I can rely on accurate readings from it.

I have measured 3 phase Irem rectifiers at anyplace from 8 to 12% ripple depending on size. When the relay board is working correctly inrush is always with in Osram specs. I've had many a relay board fail in these and it usually means to low of start voltage. I have seen single phase Irems measure quite a bit better than the three phase units. Typically at 6 to 8%.

Kneisley units are by far the cleanest I have measured and are typically at 4 to 5% for the three phase stuff. However the construction of them leaves alot to be desired. The rectifier stack though is about as bullet proof as they come.

Christies will typically measure as well or just slightly worse than the Kneisley's will. I always felt that Christies heatsinking was a joke though. A fan is definately necessary on these when running platter. What I really hate about Christies is the diodes they use. They are epoxy sealed instead of glass sealed and over a number of years the epoxy lets go from heat stress(yes, even with fans). You'll find that the diode has actually failed from mechanical failure as you can usually wiggle the stud itself around. Replacing these with glass sealed type diodes offers far higher reliability overall and less heat stress failure. Almost all diodes I have replaced in Christies over the years were from this sort of failure. Only a few shorted or open diodes have been observed.

As far as Strong switchers go they were alot of trouble back when they were new but after mechanical problems were straightend out in early units they proved in my locations to be no more or less reliable than iron core units. Over the last two years I'd say I've delt with an equal number of problems form iron core type and switchers. The new style smaller Strong switchers have been ultra reliable for us. We have several that get a constant beating on our rental Super Troupers. I've had one failure with the small switcher since they appeared on the market. This was about three weeks ago. The twist lock plug burnt up on one. This was due to compression set of the wires in the twist lock plug for the three phase. Checking all the twist locks in the plex revealed some others that were really loose as well. The rectifier was still ok though, just suffering a chared 3 phase connection socket. These switchers are also pretty much immune to line voltage fluctuations due to the regulation that is built in. we have had great luck in rural areas with them maintaining constant current on the lamps and they give great lamp life.

Overall I feel that rectifiers are like Jet planes. You have about the same chance with any of them but they all require proper maintainance and necessary upgrades to keep them reliable.
Mark @ GTS
www.getgts.com


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Richard Fowler
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL, USA
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 03-20-2002 10:06 AM      Profile for Richard Fowler   Email Richard Fowler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Generally I use switchers is locations where power does fluctuate or if there is a shipping issue. Like jet planes and sports cars they require more followup in an industry not known ( lately ) to do such. IREM admits that their switchers have 1/3 less service life than their brute force models...but then again I have many 20 year + IREMS in the field chugging along....so 1/3 less is a very long time.
Richard Fowler
TVP-Theatre and Video Products Inc. www.tvpmiami.com www.tvpmiami.com

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 03-20-2002 09:22 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark i always found the inrush current on the Kniesley rectifiers the hieghest of any
The best i found are the Sanrex and the Allanson ones that were made for General Sound here in Toronto

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 03-21-2002 10:37 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
A couple of things I've noted on the IREMs when used in the states that the wiring and componentry seem to still be based on the higher voltage and lower frequency countries and as such is barely up to rating, particularly the contactors. Also, IREM insists on using spade crimps on the mains wires feeding the contactor. We have found that removing the crimps on installation (bare wire under the contactor terminal) will virtually eliminate overheating at the contactor once and for all. Since IREM insists on giving just enough wire to manufacture the rectifier, it is best to do this before any failures since you may not have enough wire to cut off the burned section.

The biggest problem I have had with the Christie rectifiers are diode failures from ignition pulses. Unlike other rectifier manufacturers, there is nothing on a Christie rectifier after the diode stack to squash the noise pulse. Likewise, there is nothing on the input side to squash spikes coming in. Now they DO have capacitors and MOVs on a surge protection board (and one capacitor across the DC terminals on the old DC output terminals) but nothing right across the diode stack or the input terminals. We have found that placing a capacitor across the output stack pretty much stops the diode failures. I know Christie is working improving this.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Stan Gunn
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 176
From: Clematis, in the hills near Melbourne Australia
Registered: Aug 2000


 - posted 03-22-2002 04:51 AM      Profile for Stan Gunn   Author's Homepage   Email Stan Gunn   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Caps in any rect will go soft with age, I have both in a place I service. The cristie has had two diodes fail, the irem had a sticky relay.
It is very important to have the relay circuit working correctly as it can cause short lamp life by applying a high surge current.

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ALL PARTS FOR VICTOR AND KALART VICTOR 16MM PROJECTORS.SERVICE TO 35 AND 16MM PROJECTION EQUIPMENT.
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German Marin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 227
From: Verbania (VB), Italy
Registered: Jul 2001


 - posted 03-22-2002 12:39 PM      Profile for German Marin   Email German Marin   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
These Rectifiers which Mr. Volpi has been talking are about 10 months old: "This only happen in one theatre (less than 1 year open)". They begun to work May 15, 2001.

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