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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » EP II ... How's your print look? (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: EP II ... How's your print look?
Joseph Pandolfi
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 213
From: Milford, CT.
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 05-15-2002 06:41 PM      Profile for Joseph Pandolfi   Email Joseph Pandolfi   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Besides the four lab slices I surgically removed. I did noticed some erratic brown spots on reel 6 when I screened it last night. And what is that one frame I see at every head or tail that looks like a ID slate or something that you see on a miscued video tape before the countdown?

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Joe Beres
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 606
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-15-2002 06:53 PM      Profile for Joe Beres   Email Joe Beres   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joseph, The Brown spots sound like CAP code. Search for a thread called "What are these spots?" for some pictures to compare your spots to as well as an explanation of what they are.

As far as the "ID slate" you are referring to... Are they color bars? I am guessing it is that or something similar to compare the color on the print to the color from the originating video

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David Whitbeck
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: Tempe, AZ
Registered: Jun 2001


 - posted 05-15-2002 07:16 PM      Profile for David Whitbeck   Email David Whitbeck   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, I noticed those white spots too, quite bothersom. The picture was fairly grainy too. I must say that film is king.

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Bill Carter
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 162
From: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 05-15-2002 08:10 PM      Profile for Bill Carter   Email Bill Carter   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've got the same white dust specs in mine. On my print, the problem is the worst throughout most all of R1. It's also there in reels 2,3 & 5. I realize that dust problems can happen in the lab occasionally, but I'm really disappointed to hear that so may prints seem to be affected.

As for apparent sharpness, at least the occasional subtitle was there to confirm that I really was in focus.

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Matt Close
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 226
From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 05-15-2002 10:33 PM      Profile for Matt Close   Author's Homepage   Email Matt Close   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well ... our discs arrived this morning ... onya film distributors!

As for the specks .... I've noticed it mostly in reel 1 ..... for a while they all looked suspiciously horizontal ... almost generated ... you don't think he ..... just to promote ..... nah.... surely he wouldn't!

Also, I guess if you just sit as a patron and immerse yourself in the sub-culture that is 'Star Wars' ... then it looks ok.... HOWEVER, as a projectionist, who else kept checking their focus again .. and again .. and again? The total lack of sufficient resolution for large screen projection is most apparent in the faces, wouldn't you agree? And could that 'fake' CGI world look great if it were rendered at a little higher res? .... Probably not! Call me old fashioned, but give me models and film any day..... For older SW fans, it just doesn't look or feel the same now, does it?

*rant over*

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Carl King
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 199
From: Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-15-2002 10:37 PM      Profile for Carl King   Email Carl King   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just left my booth. Relief guy is running the midnight
screening of STAR SNORES so I'll check with him tomorrow
to see if there are any white specks on our prints.

I've never understood what the STAR WARS fuss is all about.
Not my cup of tea at all but as they say 'differant strokes for differant folks." For those of you who are fans I say..."enjoy".

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-15-2002 11:40 PM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the print I just saw is any indication on the state of the SW EP:2 prints (film) then they are very sorry lot indeed! Soft focus doesn't really do it justice...even the damn titles were soft....racked focus...looked with a screen-scope...see the grains but still soft image.

But wait, theres more...who QCed the digital tracks? If you are running DTS, you will probably be ok but for the sound on film guys watch out. SDDS faired a bit better than Dolby with only one noticable dropout in R-7. The Dolby Digital printing was just plain horrible! The film is printed with the azimuth off to between -3 and -4. The focus on the Dolby digital track is also rather low (in the 50s and 60s best focus). To add insult to injury, the trailers played wonderfully with "1s". The reader was checked against reference (measured) test film to verify it was in proper calibration (and the trailers running fine also proved the reader is working well).

It would be one thing if just one reel had a problem but nope they all did. I'd recommend DTS for this film if you have it.

Steve

PS: I did notice the "EX" effects in this one more than in EP:1
PPS: SDDS is only in 5.1

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Jacob Huber
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 172
From: Evansville, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-16-2002 01:25 AM      Profile for Jacob Huber   Email Jacob Huber   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I too noticed that this film had soft focus, but didn't notice any white specks, save the dirt we have (our theatre doesn't have filmguard, and sadly won't get it). I also noticed that the EX sounded like there were no surrounds save back except in a few scenes. Maybe our system is set up wrong. I did notice really shoddy CGI in this film. Especcially in one of the first scenes where Palpatine is talking to Anakin about 'becoming the most powerful of all Jedi'. The entry way to the room just looked like a painting. The extension of the Yellow Brick Rd. at the beginning of Dororthy's trip in Wizard of Oz looked better. The CGI also doesn't have the same feel to it. The originals had a great feel because it 'felt' a bit dirty. The new ones are way too clean.

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Manuel Francisco Valencia
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 151
From: Oklahoma City, OK, USA
Registered: Dec 2000


 - posted 05-16-2002 04:22 AM      Profile for Manuel Francisco Valencia   Email Manuel Francisco Valencia   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have seen this movie three times now and I have noticed a whole lot. All of the prints we have are grainy as hell. I noticed it most when Anakin is talking to Padme during the fireplace seen. As I was looking at the back of Hayden's head it seemed as though the grain took on a blue tint. I did see the CAP code marks as well as the white specs. The lab splices were shit. Good thing that the crowd didn't really notice.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-16-2002 07:24 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe Beres said: "Joseph, The Brown spots sound like CAP code. Search for a thread called "What are these spots?" for some pictures to compare your spots to as well as an explanation of what they are."

I agree that the reports of "brown spots" are probably seeing the "new" supplemental antipiracy code. I easily found them in "Spiderman". The original Kodak-developed CAP Code is much less visible.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-16-2002 07:34 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe Redifer said: "If there are any blinding white scenes (near clear) then that is the perfect opporunity to show off how clean film can be!"

Right on! "Film Done Right"!

Today, there is just no good excuse for prints getting dirty or scratched. The abrasion-resistant conductive anti-static coating on KODAK VISION Color Print Film greatly reduces the static charge that attracts and holds dirt to the film. Excellent film cleaning technology is affordable and readily available, and should be used to keep prints clean during each showing. And now some good words from Brad and others about FilmGuard...


------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 05-16-2002 08:14 AM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Good words? Simple. Even with the crappiest non-Kodak film, using FilmGuard will STILL eliminate all static from the print and keep it in like new condition for months.

Anyway getting to my reply, the 4 prints I looked at tonight were a mixed batch. I have one reel 2 that has those godawful oversized CAP code marks like John Hawkinson posted pictures of about a month ago. This simply MUST be replaced!

My prints from Deluxe Toronto generally looked better than the one from Deluxe Hollywood (no big surprise), but there was a noticeable amount of negative dirt and some very odd things here and there. One reel had knicks in it every few feet. This may have been at each turn of the reel, but as Fox only delivered my 4 prints just under four hours before showtime, I didn't have much time for inspection. Another reel had bizarre clear spots, there's the big screwup with the CAP code on another and I know I am forgetting some of the other problems, but it's late and I'm tired. Overally, generally sloppy lab work with this one. Sure every print may have been a "show print", but what I saw made me say "big deal".

Also, as Steve pointed out the SDDS track is indeed quite sloppy and there were tons of dropouts in it. (I have no idea how the SRD tracks are.) DTS played without a glitch.

Regarding the image quality, the only stuff that looked really good to me were the darker scenes with light sabers flailing around. Otherwise it just looked like very good video. I think the biggest complaint was the lack of contrast in the image. Outdoor scenes "burned" clear white and the very dark scenes looked like a cheap consumer video camera with "gain" turned on (lots of grain, lots of random color in that grain). The movie is soft, soft, soft focus. I spent a good 20 minutes tweeking that focus to make sure it was absolutely as sharp as it could be, but the resolution just isn't there. Sorry George, but shooting in digital is just not ready quite yet. Of course that's only my opinion. To be fair, I did not receive one single complaint about the focus.

Sound...Gary Rydstrom is once again my hero for sound mixing. This film sounded FANTASTIC! This by far beats out any other Star Wars mix and my only complaint with it was some of the dialogue did not sound natural (not Gary's fault) and sometimes one person's dialogue in a 2 person conversation sounded a bit too loud (Gary's fault). Overall this is damn, damn good sound mixing! A hearty "job VERY well done" goes out to Gary and everyone associated with that sound mix.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 05-16-2002 09:45 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My biggest complaint with the sound mixing would be lack of directional dialogue. There are several scenes with many characters where the speaking character may be quite some distance from the center speaker and it caused what appeared to be a lip-sync problem but upon closer inspection was just due to the distance from the center speaker. Other than that, yes I would say it was a fine mix with good use of the surrounds and subwoofers (good, not "over use").

Come on Gary, it's time for directional dialogue to come back.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-16-2002 11:00 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey, Brad, are your oversize CAP marks on a Deluxe Toronto print?

(I'd be curious if anyone has seen these on a non-Toronto print).

--jhawk

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Adam Martin
I'm not even gonna point out the irony.

Posts: 3686
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 05-16-2002 11:11 AM      Profile for Adam Martin   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Martin       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Come on Gary, it's time for directional dialogue to come back.

Lack of directional dialogue was the second thing I noticed. (The first was the edge jaggies on high-contrast edges.)

Are we now so concerned about those damned hard-of-hearing devices that we're not allowed to use the sound system the way it was designed to be used?

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