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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » DTS-6 Player - Do I need a new board? (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: DTS-6 Player - Do I need a new board?
Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-21-2002 04:19 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve said:
--
perferrably a true RMS meter with an appropriate frequency response.
--

What do you mean?

Bye
Antonio

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-21-2002 08:43 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There are different ways that meters read AC voltages and currents
One is the peak voltage ie the maximum of the sine wave
others read the average voltage
the best and most accurate is the RMS (root mean squared) reading type
(they are typically more expensive though wavetek has some good ones now)
The RMS value is .707 of the peak (45 degree angle of the sine wave)
This was based on the equivelent heating effect of D.C.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 05-21-2002 09:09 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some links:
http://www.ultracad.com/rms.pdf
http://vanadium.rollins.edu/~griffin/phy121/exp5.pdf
http://www.inter-netco.com/images_and_links/electrowave/power_measurements.htm
http://www.jaycar.com.au/pdfs/ohmpower.pdf

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-21-2002 11:56 AM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Antonio,

As mentioned in my posting, the 88dB SPL is meant to get him in the correct range and to get him by until a subwoofer adjustment with a RTA can be done.

Karen at DTS


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-21-2002 12:08 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve said" If you don't have the proper tools, don't do the job."
I agree 100%

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-22-2002 05:19 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Karen,

Ok, thanks. I didn't caught the meaning of 88!!

Gordon,

Very clear. How can I know how my meter measure the current? My DTS6 come back from DTS UK few months ago and my meter read exactly "300mV" on the outputs. Can I assume that it reads RMS correctly?

John,

Very interesting links, I'll study them deeply.

Thanks to all.
Antonio

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-22-2002 10:38 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Probably it is correct.
Measure it on a wall outlet and it should measure what the local mains are which I think is 240 volts in Italy
If it reads the mains correctly then it is reading the RMS as that is published value of the mains

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-22-2002 05:34 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon, Karen,

A tech told me that he is not convinced bout the 300mV procedure because the meters are set to read 50Hz tension while the DTS test tones are at 1000Hz or 30Hz.

How can I reply?

Karen,

Just a curiosity: why on older empirical test list I read "1 Khz at reference level (250mV)"?

Bye
Antonio

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 05-23-2002 07:44 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The newest disk had the reference tones at dolbys stantard of 30mv
Most analogue meters and most good digital meters do not have much of a problem until you get into very high frequencies

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-23-2002 08:00 AM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon,

I just tried with my meter. I've connected the meter to my SB live! output and I generated a 1000Hz tone. I've set the volume so the meter was at 300mV.

I switch to 30Hz tone, same level. Meter says 650mV.

I'm going to check our DTS6D with the "tone way". Are you sure that it is a correct procedure?

Bye
Antonio

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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-23-2002 11:44 AM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Antonio,

All DTS output levels should be adjusted to 300mV RMS. With the DS3 disc, use the tones: 1kHz for screen and surround channels, and 30/40Hz for the subwoofer.

Karen at DTS

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-23-2002 01:41 PM      Profile for Antonio Marcheselli   Author's Homepage   Email Antonio Marcheselli   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Karen,

Thanks for your reply. You already explained the procedure to me. I just want to know how to reply to our tech.

I've already shown your e.mail to him, he is collecting information about this because he really was not informed about the 10dB in-band gain of the subwoofer via RTA and the 1kHz/40Hz tone for DTS.

Bye
Antonio

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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-24-2002 12:02 PM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Antonio,

The old level setting of 250mV was chosen at the time as a preliminary setting so that when the unit was installed and a setup disc played, sound would be heard. As mentioned in the manual, that level would not over drive speakers and we asked people to complete the level adjustments using a setup disc and SPL meter.

Things have changed and we now ask theaters to setup our players to the cinema processor line level which in most cases is 300mV. This will ensure equal SPL playback in digital and analog.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 05-30-2002 08:59 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks very much to all of you...

Here's an update:

Both DTS-6 players are working fine; there's nothing wrong with any of the boards (although they probably don't have the latest firmware).

I now have much more satisfying levels after "dialing up" 300mV by using the DS3 disk and the JM21 breakout board, as described in previous posts.

Karen's notes were helpful in determining once-and-for-all that a reader had faded.

Once again, my thanks to all.

"I love it when a plan comes together."

~Manny.

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Karen Hultgren
Master Film Handler

Posts: 492
From: Agoura Hills, CA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 05-31-2002 11:54 AM      Profile for Karen Hultgren   Author's Homepage   Email Karen Hultgren   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny,

Glad to hear things worked out for you! Please do not besitate to contact me at any time when you have a DTS question.

Karen at DTS
khultgren@dtsonline.com

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