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Author Topic: Soundtrack Format
Christos Mitsakis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 242
From: Ag.Paraskevi, ATHENS, GREECE
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 06-08-2002 07:00 AM      Profile for Christos Mitsakis   Email Christos Mitsakis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dolby SR was first introduced for the audio industry in March 1986.
The same year the 35mm optical SR format was demonstrated to A.M.P.A.S.
However, the first films using SR NR were Innerspace and Robocop in 1987. Robocop was my first SR presentation back then.

Regards,
Christos.

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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 06-08-2002 08:42 AM      Profile for Paul Linfesty   Email Paul Linfesty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I saw one of those two prints of STAR TREK IV at the Village Westwood. The other, if memory serves, played the Cinerama Dome in Hollywood. Dolby used a new logo for this introduction of SR, never used again. In both newspaper ads and on the marquee, the name used for SR was "Dolby Spectrasound" (with the full name appearing INSIDE the DOLBY logo box.


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Ken Lackner
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1907
From: Atlanta, GA, USA
Registered: Sep 2001


 - posted 06-08-2002 10:13 AM      Profile for Ken Lackner   Email Ken Lackner   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have always been taught that A and SR are not compatible and that you cannot play an A print in SR and vicy versy. But at my new theater, we play our trailers in A. Why don't they sound as bad as I thought they would?

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-08-2002 10:50 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Both processes are in effect multiple compandors working on different frequency bands. By compandor (compressor - expander) we mean that the sound level variations are compressed on encoding and then expanded again on playback. This keeps everything well above the murk. A simple one processes the entire signal at once which means a high level signal at one frequency will reduce the compression and signals at other frequencies may drop down into the noise. Dolby's invention was to work independently on 4 frequency bands (Type A) and do so in a way that the decoding very acccurately undoes the encoding.

SR does the same thing but more heavily, with more bands, and the frequency ranges can slide a bit as needed depending on the signal. In both cases we are talking about bringing low level signals UP and then putting them back down. Compatibility is going to vary with the material but to some degree playback where low level signals have been raised by SR encoding, then lowered but not all the way by playback in A will result in audio that is still slightly compressed. This can sometimes be an advantage if the listening environment has high background noise. Audio with very wide dynamic range may be hard to hear if the quiet passages are very quiet. This type of playback may leave them a bit louder.

As for the specific example of trailers it may also be that trailers tend to be recorded at such high levels that only minimal NR action that is applied. A characteristic of both processes is that high level signals pass through unchanged.

Of course, as we have said elsewhere the SR optical soundtrack is recorded at a lower average level than A (just as A is recorded at a lower level than a typical mono track) so as to trade off a bit of the improved noise level for more range--an extremely loud sound can be that much louder than average dialog level without clipping. So when playing an SR track, a lower level signal, in A-type which is expecting a higher level signal you're automatically reducing the volume a few dB which may be helpful on trailers as well.



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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-08-2002 11:17 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Two other little bits in effect Dolby NR only works on signals below a threshold (Dolby psycoacoustics you only here background noise in quiet parts). Unlike DBX that was a single band that compressed both the high and low level information
Also it does it by adding and subtracting the companded signal from the original to reduce the breathing effects

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-08-2002 11:19 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank the reason was the academy roll off on playback effectively buried the top band where most of the noise reduction action occurs
As such Dolby felt that Mono playback of NR prints was backward compatable

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-09-2002 01:43 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joe, while one may have to guess, at first, which NR to use on a print in question...it shouldn't take very long to determine which is the correct one! Heck, "knock off" SR cards sound like crap when trying to play back SR too (including the Cat. 222 SR/A). Maybe the only knock-off card that tracks it right is Panastereo's...I haven't listened to it enough to give it a thumbs up or down yet but so far so good.

Pay attention to the upper frequencies...how A and SR handles them is quite different. SR has an "spectral skewing" that will make it very bright if played back with A.

Steve K already pointed out that the filters themselves are different in quantity and function.

Again, when in doubt, listen...you should easily be able to tell which one is correct.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-09-2002 06:46 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, so where do UltraStereo prints come in on this? When you encounter one, what do you use -- Dolby A or SR? UltraStereo prints always sounded unnaturally bright to me -- lots of swishy noise on the top-end -- no matter what format I used.

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Michael Brown
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1522
From: Bradford, England
Registered: May 2001


 - posted 06-09-2002 07:03 AM      Profile for Michael Brown   Email Michael Brown   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I supposed it the same with DTS prints. But I think Karen allready said the recent ones "Antitrust", "Legally Blond" etc are SR.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 06-09-2002 07:15 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There's quite a bit of information on the Dolby website:
http://www.dolby.com/company/is.ot.0011.TechOverview.html
http://www.dolby.com/tech/mp.br.0102.EvolutionOfSound.html
http://www.dolby.com/ken/
http://www.dolby.com/tech/

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-09-2002 09:34 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
UltraStereo prints are A type. I believe that Ultra has finally quit doing encoding
Panastereo makes a encoder that does A and SR

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Les Brock
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Basingstoke, Hamshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2001


 - posted 06-09-2002 03:06 PM      Profile for Les Brock   Author's Homepage   Email Les Brock   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul said

"In both newspaper ads and on the marquee, the name used for SR was "Dolby Spectrasound" (with the full name appearing INSIDE the DOLBY logo box."

The correct title is Dolby Spectral Recording hence the Dolby SR.

With the introduction of Dolby Digital the format name SR-D came from Spectral Recording Digital.



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Paul Linfesty
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1383
From: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 06-09-2002 07:19 PM      Profile for Paul Linfesty   Email Paul Linfesty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, starting with ROBOCOP in 1987. But that wasn't the logo design used for STAR TREK IV in 1986 in LA.I'm not saying it wasn't technically known as Dolby SR earlier, just that it wasn't the public name used for it at the time, at least not for this title.


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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 06-09-2002 07:52 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Please tell me more about the Cat. 222 SR/A card and the particular reason(s) why it has such a bad rap. I've even heard of these being referred to as "Dolby Lite." I have these cards in my CP-45's right now and I would like to know if there is a better card I should be using in them for SR NR? I didn't even know there was an alternative to the NR card it came with.

While I'm asking...What benefits would I reap from by upgrading from a CP-45 to a CP-65?

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-09-2002 10:11 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No the 222SR/a is the only card that will work in the cp45
They have less headroom and are not as well performing as the 280T 300 and 350 cards

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