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Author Topic: The Amplifier You Install the Most
Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 06-03-2010 11:06 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Back on topic (but thanks for the info on lamps and ballasts guys!!) it has always been QSC only for me.

Starting way back in the mid-late 80's when I worked for Knott's Berry Farm and we were switching from Altec (not bad but parts were getting hard to come by and they were underpowered) and Yamaha (Great motorcycles but crappy amps) I have been a huge fan of QSC.

True story: Set up sound on the roof of Calico Saloon for Halloween Haunt's sound efx. Used one Yamaha amp and one QSC 1400. Both were powered up overnight and got rained (heavily) on. Guess which one survived? The 1400 was still on and working but the Yamaha was dead. Never could get it working even after extensive drying time.

Another: One USA series amp at UC Irvine failed. No drama, just came in one day and it was dead. Took it to QSC Service which is local to UCI, dropped it off for repair. Despite the fact it was out of warranty (5 years old) QSC repaired it for free and even shipped it back to me at no charge. After 13 years that has been the only breakdown of the 7 MXa series and 3 USA series amps in that room. Oh, the amps stay powered up 24/7.

Another selling point for me is the integration of QSC's hardware now for cinema use..The DCM monitors, DCA amps and the speaker systems which work extremely well together. My new install at UCI gets rave reviews for sound quality and it was at a great price point.

As for Crown, I have been generally satisfied with the sound, but the reliability and often violent failure modes has made me stay away from them. I have seen too many Crown amps go down with lots of sparks and flames and impress the full DC power supply voltage to the speakers. In fact IIRC it was a Crown amp that caught fire and caused an evacuation and shutdown of a ride at Disney's California Adventure park.

BGW amps were once popular here in So Cal but have been replaced over time with QSC. The BGW's were generally quite good, but the combination power switch/circuit breaker was a weak link.

So for sound quality, ease of installation, integration from processor output to speakers, reliability and outstanding service support at a great price point, QSC wins hands down.

quote: Demetris Thoupis
I believe this perception of QSC DCA amps as the best is just something that has been planted in our brains throughout the years. I do not say that QSC are not great. They are excellent and I used RMX series in a multiplex in 2001 and DCA in a multiplex in 2007 and so far not a single failure in either of these locations. I find though the overlove on the QSC to be something which cannot be explained. What really makes them the best? I can name a few other companies with better feature amplifiers like for example the Crown DSi Series. Not only they are excellent amps, budget friendly but they also incorporate very nice features like built in crossover network and some parametric eq minimizing the need for an external crossover network. I have not used these amps but I find this feature very interesting. Also the Crown XLS series are the most budget conservative amps. Still I am not saying that QSC are not excellent but I don't like the idea of everyone considering them the BEST because there are other excellent brands as well.
Demetris

LOL Demetris, now who's taking the piss out of someone like you said to me in another thread? [Big Grin] [Big Grin] (I'm just havin fun with you, please don't get mad.)

To answer your question, the points I summarized above the quote are what makes QSC the best, so far. No one else has come close to matching them in all the categories I mentioned.

That is generally the criteria for determining the best in a given situation.

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Michael Voiland
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 219
From: Naperville, IL US
Registered: Aug 2009


 - posted 06-03-2010 11:29 PM      Profile for Michael Voiland   Email Michael Voiland   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Anyone ever hear of ashly?

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Jeremy Weigel
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1062
From: Edmond, OK, USA
Registered: Mar 2007


 - posted 06-04-2010 12:15 AM      Profile for Jeremy Weigel   Email Jeremy Weigel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
All of our amps are QSC's Mxa1500 & 2000's and RMX 1450's. I've only had 2 of them die. Both were MXa2000's and they died violently. Sparks and smoke shot out the front. Luckily they didn't damage the speakers. I still have one of them and have been debating whether it is worth trying to fix it.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002


 - posted 06-04-2010 04:50 AM      Profile for Stephen Furley   Email Stephen Furley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The people who don't like Crown amps, what was it about them that you didn't like?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 06-04-2010 06:28 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ashleys suck...they have been the primary cause of recones for me aside from foam rot! When an Ashley goes, it will cook the voice coil...they LOVE to do that. They are hot amps and are often undercooled. To top it off, I don't like how they sound.

As to Crowns...their reliability leaves a lot to be desired. Crown designs often have parts operating close to their maximum...with little thought as to varying line voltages that might push that part over its maximum rating. When Crowns fail, they are often violent and self-destruct. ....the list goes on and on. Now, as some have said, they have SOME amps that sound quite good, I just don't trust them anymore (and I used to be a Crown fan...back in the '70s and '80s).

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Sam D. Chavez
Film God

Posts: 2153
From: Martinez, CA USA
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 06-04-2010 10:43 AM      Profile for Sam D. Chavez   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What Steve said.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-04-2010 10:52 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Out of curiousity, what is the expected lifetime of a quality amplifier?

I finally heard of a QSC that failed--it is an MX2000a that was installed in 1998 or so. (I don't know the details of the failure mode, but it didn't take out the speakers. It is in the process of being repaired and I hope to find out later what went wrong.)

Is this an anomaly, or are all of the other amps of that vintage in that venue about to need service? These have all been powered off at night (and on every day) since the installation.

This is the first time that I have seen any issues with QSC, and pretty much all of the recent (post-mid-1990s) installations in this area use them. The only other issue that I have had is noisy pots in MX-1500a units, which were easily and cheaply replaced (I think that the part is something like $3 from QSC).

(Does anyone use Crest amplifiers in cinemas? Crown and Crest seem to be popular with the stage theater crowd, but they (almost?) never show up in cinemas.)

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Tony Bandiera Jr
Film God

Posts: 3067
From: Moreland Idaho
Registered: Apr 2004


 - posted 06-04-2010 12:44 PM      Profile for Tony Bandiera Jr   Email Tony Bandiera Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Jeremy Weigel
I've only had 2 of them die. Both were MXa2000's and they died violently. Sparks and smoke shot out the front. Luckily they didn't damage the speakers. I still have one of them and have been debating whether it is worth trying to fix it.
Jeremy, there was a bad run of MXa's that had a problem with the power switch and associated wiring. When it let go the forced air from the fan in concert with the natural dust build-up made for quite a show.

Contact QSC's service department with the amp's serial number, it is quite possible they will fix it at no charge if it was one of the affected lot. Even if not a warranty issue, their repair rates are very reasonable and I doubt the repair cost would exceed $300. A great deal for a fresh amp. (They check EVERYTHING when doing a repair and reset bias, etc. and replace any questionable parts.)

Stephen, I listed some points about Crown in my previous post and Steve and Sam pretty well recapped it. Crown, in terms of reliability and speaker protection when failing, sucks.

Scott, I would feel that 20-25 years is a good benchmark for amplifier life, but there are plenty of amps out there that are 30-40 years old and still running.

Main failure modes for older amps are the electrolytic caps which can dry out and fail after many years, sometimes bridge rectifiers go bad, level pots are the most common failure (and cheap to fix) but a bigger issue with really old amps is non-availability of semiconductors.

Never saw any Crest amps in cinemas, had one screening room with them, but they've been replaced with QSC's.
[Big Grin]

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Demetris Thoupis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1240
From: Aradippou, Larnaca, Cyprus
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 06-04-2010 02:11 PM      Profile for Demetris Thoupis   Email Demetris Thoupis   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
In the 90's unfortunately QSC had no direct dealer in Cyprus so we used the CrestAudio Multiplex series for some cinemas via the local CrestAudio dealer (hey we are in the middle of nowhere in a sense). They don't like to sit unworking that is for sure. Also leaking capacitors was a common problem to them. Then we changed over the JBL amps the MPX series again from the local dealer and from those we never had a failure. I used Crown at a college cinema and have not had any problems yet and everything else so far was QSC but pricing down here is quite hefty compared to Crown although we have used QSC so far in our projects from 2001 till today simply for the mind planting QSC are the best. In a funny way, I had a call for a failed RMX unit today [Big Grin] . Sods law!

Demetris

PS. And I don't compare testing an amp in the rain a test which validates which amp is best or not! They are not supposed to get wet. (although definately not saying that Yamaha amps are worth installing in cinema applications)

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Phil Hill
I love my cootie bug

Posts: 7595
From: Hollywood, CA USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 06-04-2010 02:35 PM      Profile for Phil Hill   Email Phil Hill       Edit/Delete Post 
Having installed over 3000 power amps in large screen and simulator ride cinemas, the worst of the bunch were JBL 6290 (usually failed on power-up - although the 6260 was good) and, as Steve said, ANY Crown amp. When the Crowns failed, they usually take the speaker with them...shitty design that applies the DC rail to the VC when kaput...avoid!

The best (IMHO) is the QSC DCA series and I've had good luck with the MX series.

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Marco Giustini
Film God

Posts: 2713
From: Reading, UK
Registered: Nov 2007


 - posted 06-04-2010 04:25 PM      Profile for Marco Giustini   Email Marco Giustini   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My personal experience with DCA's amps is awesome. 68 DCA's installed in the theatre I used to work. Two failures in 6 years, one of which a few weeks after the opening.

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-04-2010 05:36 PM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I always remember being told that the crown DC300 amps earned there name well they alway would go DC on the speaker terminals
ALso had a lot of grief form latter Hafler Amps
I liked the AB International Amps

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Bobby Henderson
"Ask me about Trajan."

Posts: 10973
From: Lawton, OK, USA
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 06-04-2010 09:05 PM      Profile for Bobby Henderson   Email Bobby Henderson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wow. No mention of Peavey?
[Razz]

I'm just throwing that in to possibly piss off some Cinemark folks. Heh heh.

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Louis Bornwasser
Film God

Posts: 4441
From: prospect ky usa
Registered: Mar 2005


 - posted 06-04-2010 09:38 PM      Profile for Louis Bornwasser   Author's Homepage   Email Louis Bornwasser   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Started with old Crown (DC300 & D150), went to Hafler back when David Hafler owned the company. Then bought Ashly from Kelmar.

Stayed with Ashly for 25 years. I only bought the FET500/FET2000/FTX2001 series. Sold over 7000 of them. Reliable, powerful, rated at 2 ohm (will work at .6 ohm)Really sweet sound. Distortion at or below rated output is .003% below 9k. Widely used in the UK in cinemas and studios. All National Amusement cinemas, many Goodrich Theatres, and all of my independents.

Would still be selling them, but no longer made. Substantial inventory still available since I had 2 runs made after the factory dropped the model.

No replacement in sight at a correct price. Louis

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Jonathan Althaus
Master Film Handler

Posts: 435
From: Bedford, TX
Registered: Dec 2008


 - posted 06-04-2010 10:18 PM      Profile for Jonathan Althaus   Email Jonathan Althaus   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Peavey CS 400, still have 22 in use, and 11 CS 800 X's. Haven't replaced one in months (knock on wood).

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