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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Reel(s) TES... but different (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Reel(s) TES... but different
Adam Wilbert
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 590
From: Bellingham, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2002


 - posted 06-27-2002 08:27 PM      Profile for Adam Wilbert   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Wilbert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My print of Lilo & Stitch had two reel 4's, according to the sticker on the paper band. That was really helpful. Good thing the reels were drastically different sizes, or i might have been worried for a few seconds while i took the bands off. The only problem i've ever had with the string is when it gets wrapped around the reel's core. Thats when the string gets yanked off.

As far as securing leaders back onto the prints, i admit that i use a small bit of the blue 3M masking tape. Its *supposedly* for masking X's on glass windows during construciton (so workers don't walk through them) and peels cleanly, even when exposed for extended periods to sunlight, or, say holding sheets of paper to 1600W xenon lamphouses. (i've recently spent several hours srubbing 20+ years of cooked masking tape and duct tape residue off of our lamphouses... no fun) Plus, the glue side has a fresh pineapple smell to it! I think this is probably less distructive to the film than re-doing the tape splices when, chances are, that the print will be going to another platter theatre and the splicing tape would just be peeled off or *gasp* cut off. The tape, like i said, leaves no residue.

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Brent Arnold
Film Handler

Posts: 20
From: Grapevine, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 06-27-2002 10:23 PM      Profile for Brent Arnold   Email Brent Arnold   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Adam, I have the same feeling. I do splice my heads and tails back on the film (on both sides) cause thats what people want, but I actually enjoy it when people use tape on the heads and tales that don't leave residue, because then I won't lose a frame. (especially sincee I show 3 and 4 run prints, that may have 4 or 5 frames already lost)

I would just tape the heads and tails back on but, people dont like that for some reason. I have the same logic that most theatres are building up to platter anyways, not reeel to reel.

-Brent

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James R. Hammonds, Jr
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 931
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 06-28-2002 12:29 AM      Profile for James R. Hammonds, Jr   Email James R. Hammonds, Jr   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brent,

Try splicing the heads and tails on one side only.
If you do it on both sides the slacker at the next theatre might just cut that additional frame off so he doesnt have to peel the tape.
If you do it on one side only, it lessens this chance.
Some slackers will still cut it off and leave that frame dangling by that single sided splice, but many of them will probably peel it off since it will be super easy.
Even if they leave that splicing tape on the head or tail, its still better than cutting off that frame.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-28-2002 12:37 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I agree; single siding is the best compromise. It returns the print in a condition very close to how it was received--at least insofar as the most important aspect which is that it is runnable, given that a single sided splice will go through most machines just fine. Someone like me who will actually run it reel to reel will go and back splice the head leaders. (Actually just as often I will remake the whole thing if there is tape on top of tape but this is not mandatory.)

The excuse that you are making it easier for the next person is just that: an excuse for laziness. A single sided splice is easily removed with a twist and peel back. This of course assumes you are using quality tape.

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 06-28-2002 01:06 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve Kraus said: "I agree; single siding is the best compromise. It returns the print in a condition very close to how it was received--at least insofar as the most important aspect which is that it is runnable, given that a single sided splice will go through most machines just fine."

It's a matter of weighing the risk of a film jam or fold-up if someone does try to put a single-sided splice through the projector, versus the ease in peeling off the leader splices without losing frames and continuity. If we assume a higher level of competence in someone doing changeovers, it is likely they would remake the leader tape splices properly (to double-sided splices) during print inspection before projection.

I agree with you, that only high quality clear splicing tape should be used, with the leaders spliced on in-frame.

NEVER return a print with the leaders unattached, or just haphazardly taped on. Always replace the cardboard bands if you have them.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
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e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion


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Mike Blakesley
Film God

Posts: 12767
From: Forsyth, Montana
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 06-28-2002 01:32 PM      Profile for Mike Blakesley   Author's Homepage   Email Mike Blakesley   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The only time I cut a frame off at the end is if the previous person spliced it back on with "cheap" splicing tape, leaving sticky gunk. I could clean the stuff off the film with film-guard, but I figure all that extra handling would open the film up for more damage. It's a trade off.

As for those reel bands. On our print of Deeds, the string was NOT wrapped around the rivets, but was stuck under labels which were pasted directly OVER the rivets. STOOPID! AT least they are using bands with better quality string now.

Also, please send the bands back, even if you have to tape them down. Reason: If TES receives it back with no bands, they will often put NEW bands on....but they won't put any indication of reel number, film title or anything else. So, make things easier for your fellow projectionist down the road...send the bands back.

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Adam Wilbert
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 590
From: Bellingham, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2002


 - posted 06-28-2002 04:58 PM      Profile for Adam Wilbert   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Wilbert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Single sided splicing: does it matter which side of the film (emulsion or base) that the splice goes on? It seems to me that the inside would be more condusive to folding in the projector loops than the outside. (also, i'm not sure which side is facing the screen when in the gate)

removing splice tape v. removing the blue masking tape: The splicing tape that i have to use never comes off in one piece, which requires several passes to remove it all, and the excess handling can not be better for that last frame than removing the blue tape. Its not a matter of being lazy by any means (as anyone who has ever worked with me knows full well), but I honestly feel that its the best solution to preserve the film, given what i have to work with. If i had better tape, splicers that cleanly punched out the chads, and permission from the payroll people to spend more time on it, I would. I'm already pushing the clock as far as i can as it is and frequently do things pro bono just because its the right thing to do.

John P. said:

quote:
If we assume a higher level of competence in someone doing changeovers, it is likely they would remake the leader tape splices properly (to double-sided splices) during print inspection before projection.

if the changeover projectionists are going to remake the splice anyway, how is not remaking the leader splice a poor choice? When you consider the fact that platter projctionists would be undoing the splice the former is a cleaner process than the latter. (not saying that removing splicing tape causes damage, but the potential is higher)

Steve K. said

quote:
at least insofar as the most important aspect which is that it is runnable, given that a single sided splice will go through most machines just fine

As a platter projectionist, i would consider a full reel with attatched heads and tails to be not runnable.
Perhaps I've just been mislead in the ratio of platter systems to changeover systems in use. If i'm told that most second run theaters use changeovers, then i'll change my practice tomorrow. I don't need an excuse to be lazy, the booth that i have to run is excuse enough if i wanted an excuse. I use super platters for goodness sake!

-adam


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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 06-28-2002 06:05 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Adam, tell your purchasing guys to buy NEUMADE tape and NOTHING ELSE. Neumade is the ONLY tape that comes off clean and effortlessly. I've tried many other kinds of tape that other forum members claim is wonderful, but they aren't.

Neumade tape should be mandatory. If you don't have Neumade tape, I would rather see someone lay a piece of white Artist's tape across the splicing block and punch it to make a single sided splice to return. It may sound crazy, but it's no joke. A splice made with Artist's tape works quite wonderfully, and unlike all non-Neumade tape, peels off effortlessly.

Just don't confuse the Artist's tape recommendation to mean that I am saying it is ok to place a strip lengthwise to join the ends. I mean the tape should go ACROSS the film just like splicing tape from a roll wound, and then the perforations punched with a splicer. Single-sided only, of course.


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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-29-2002 12:45 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Adam wrote:
>As a platter projectionist, i would consider a full reel with
>attatched heads and tails to be not runnable.

Platter operation requires a single strand. Therefore any print that comes broken into 20 minute reels is by definition unrunnable. And I doubt you'd be too happy if I sent you a print that had no leaders or identification at all.

If you detect a note of resentment on my part regarding what (many) platter people do to prints you'd be correct. The fact is that a considerable part of my work is necessitated by the existance of platters and the lazy people who often operate them.

Movies come on 20 minute reels; I run 20 minute reels. In theory I ought to be able to run shows and never go near a splicer. Hypothetically I shouldn't even need to inspect a print. That's true only when the print hasn't been in the hands of the platter people.

I really have nothing against platters; they are a wonderful labor-saving device. But I wonder why so many of the people who use them--having already saved tons of labor over the course of a run--are so lazy they aren't willing to take a few extra seconds per reel to return the print in the way it was sent to them. Yes, that means with leaders properly attached. I didn't create the world of 20 minute reels; that is simply the way it is. Prints should go back the way they came. With leaders attached and banded if so equipped. Call it the Golden Rule perhaps.

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Adam Wilbert
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 590
From: Bellingham, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2002


 - posted 06-29-2002 09:39 PM      Profile for Adam Wilbert   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Wilbert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve: Believe it or not, I honestly thought what I was doing was the best solution for the majority of the people who recieved the prints that I had shown. I have never recieved a single-sided-spliced print and, when the leaders are double-spliced, it requires more handling than the process that I used. Usually the reattached leaders are sloppily joined when spliced and I would prefer the residue-less masking tape to that. It was the method that I was taught way back when and never thought to question. I've never returned a print without leaders, and have always reused the paper bands when present. It was never a haphazard or lazy process.

However, as of this comming tuesday night, consider me a single-splicing convert. The twist and peel method of removal never occured to me, and i'd rather take that over the masking tape. I'll see how my tape holds up and will look into getting Neumade tape asap.

-adam


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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-30-2002 10:10 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bravo.

I like Neumade tape as well but I'm currently having good luck with a batch of...hmm...can't recall the brand but it's made in England. Totally-clear only for me of course because from my perspective *all* splices are repair splices.

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Aaron Sisemore
Flaming Ribs beat Reeses Peanut Butter Cups any day!

Posts: 3061
From: Rockwall TX USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 06-30-2002 11:42 AM      Profile for Aaron Sisemore   Email Aaron Sisemore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The CPI tapes (Made by Jack(?) Roe in the UK) are every bit as good as NeuTape (no gooey residues and easy to peel off)...

-Aaron

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Adam Wilbert
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 590
From: Bellingham, WA, USA
Registered: Mar 2002


 - posted 06-30-2002 12:27 PM      Profile for Adam Wilbert   Author's Homepage   Email Adam Wilbert   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When i took over the booth i'm in now, the previous operators used the all yellow tape for everything. That was the first thing that i got rid of and I found a package of all clear tape which is what i'm now using. Perhaps the reason that it peels poorly is because it is probably several years old. Steve: Thank you for helping me become a better projectionist.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 06-30-2002 10:16 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Um...sure. Psst...check's in the mail.

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