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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Brenkert History - Robert Sprague (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: Brenkert History - Robert Sprague
Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 08-13-2014 09:45 PM      Profile for Steve Matz   Email Steve Matz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
The sad thing about the telecine Eastman's is they can not be converted at all for regular screening use. They are only good for the film path parts and that's about it.

The Eastman 25 still rules as the king of 16mm projectors though

Not True Mark;My good friend Greg who also ran a 16mm Film Library converted a 1958 275 to Tungsten Use. He replaced the shutter with a 2 blade from a 25C along with the Ektanon 2"F/1.5 Lens,a DGS 1000Watt Lamp.The Intermittent Pulleys/Gilmer Belt from a Model 30/40.I've watched Films projected off of it at least a dozen Times;Image is a Rock Steady Picture just like my 30...

The 275 Cabintry is the same as the 25A,B,C and 250 Telecine. They Changed the Upper Reel Arm and added a Takeup Motor in the Lower Cabinet to handle 5000 Ft. Reels. That was the drawback of the 25/250 Series Projectors;Limited to 2000Ft Reels. The Projector Mech/Transport is pretty much the same in all the Models.The 30/40 Intermittent had a faster pulldown Ratio and could throw a little more light on the Screen than the 25.If you maintain these Projectors they will outlast you and maybe your Kids.I've had mine since 1968 and it has worked Flawlessly all these years(same intermittent)

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Eastman Model 275 16mm Telecine

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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-14-2014 08:03 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Who was Hopkins and Woods in a old article they were listed as the manufacturer of the Carbon Arc Lamphouse used on them

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-14-2014 08:55 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve Matz,

Glimmer belts and pulleys... Where? Every Eastman projector I have ever seen is directly driven via two synchronous motors that lock together during start up with synchromesh gears. Internally they are all geared. There is so much work involved that one may as well just seek out a complete projector in the first place and if it was at all feesable to do there wouldn't be so many Eastman telecine projectors going to the scrap heap. They can't be given away. I have serviced quite a few of them over the years and I still service one every year that's at BYU. There isn't a belt in the entire projector. Even the take up is motor driven.

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 08-14-2014 09:46 AM      Profile for Steve Matz   Email Steve Matz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Well apparently Mark you have never serviced a Model 30/40 or 285 because they eliminated the star like syncromesh gears in the 60's. I know Eastman projectors, I have dealt with them for 50+ years. If you had worked on these as you claim you would have known that they went to a cogged belt System with aluminum/alloy pulleys on the intermittent and Motor;Just the way mine is that I bought in 1968. If you doubt my word we can make a Money bet and I will post a photo of the intermittent side of my Projector...

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 08-14-2014 11:26 AM      Profile for Steve Matz   Email Steve Matz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Gordon McLeod
Who was Hopkins and Woods in a old article they were listed as the manufacturer of the Carbon Arc Lamphouse used on them
Not sure about that Company; When you ordered a 25 arc Model
this is the Lamphouse you Got. It was made by Strong but had
Kodak Badges on it and a Kodak P.N. It's a Big Tank but I will keep it for Nostaglia Purposes. Kodak didn't sell that many Arc Systems back in the early 50's compared to Tungsten Models...

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Eastman 25A Lamphouse built by Strong for Kodak

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Charles A. Petty
Film Handler

Posts: 10
From: Eureka, CA/Humboldt, USA
Registered: Nov 2005


 - posted 08-14-2014 02:11 PM      Profile for Charles A. Petty   Email Charles A. Petty   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
We need an ash receiver and supplemental magnet assembly for our Strong Utility lamphouse that we are running with our Eastman 25 16mm projector. We acquired this unit last year and it works well, but is missing these parts.

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-15-2014 04:42 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve Matz,

No... I have never seen an Eastman with timing belt drive. Every model 25 and 30 I've ever serviced had the synchro-mesh gearing with direct drive motors. The Model 30 is exactly the same as the Model 25 in every respect. All they did was modernize the cabinet. I would probably pass on any Eastman projector I ran across with timing belts in it.

Hopkins & Woods...? They are a large machine shop in Martinsville, IN and they are still in business (started in 1942, 1.5 million revenue average). Eastman Kodak used a lot of outside vendors to make some of the complex mechanical products they sold to their specs. The Eastman 16mm film cameras are one example. It is also likely the big 16mm projectors were also not made at Kodak but merely QC'd there and shipped from their warehouse.

Mark

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 08-15-2014 06:11 PM      Profile for Steve Matz   Email Steve Matz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
The Model 30 is exactly the same as the Model 25 in every respect. All they did was modernize the cabinet. I would probably pass on any Eastman projector I ran across with timing belts in it.
That Statement There tells me you have never serviced a 30/40 or 285 Projector.They did more than just Cabintry Changes. The Intermittent was changed to a faster Pull down and the Kodak P.N is different than the 25 models.That was one of the improvements over a 25 to get more light on a Screen.The Gilmer(not Glimmer)Belt Pulley system has been on every 30/40 and 285 Mfgerd since Day one; not just my Projector...(still with the original belt from 1968)

If you were to pass on the Projector because of this Cogged Belt timing System than you should pass on any Automoble/Truck that incorporates SOHC/DOHC Valve Train; because they all use a similar type system and Timing stays Accurate longer than most people
own the Vehicle...

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Mark Gulbrandsen
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From: Music City
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 - posted 08-16-2014 09:47 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, I have actually installed a Model 30! It too had synchro mesh gears. It sounds more like they made a change somewhere during production to me, the synchro mesh gears would of course have been the more expensive route. A projector with no belts is always preferred. If yours has belts in it I'm sorry.

Hortson used an almost identical 8 sided star in their intermittent.

Mark

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 08-18-2014 06:48 PM      Profile for Steve Matz   Email Steve Matz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Steve, I have actually installed a Model 30! It too had synchro mesh gears. It sounds more like they made a change somewhere during production to me, the synchro mesh gears would of course have been the more expensive route. A projector with no belts is always preferred. If yours has belts in it I'm sorry.

Mark

Mark;Why would you feel sorry for me running a Gilmer Belt controlled intermittent that turns 1440rpm.This replaced the antiquated Syncromesh Star Gears and just like this Chevy Nascar R07 Engine Below it uses a Modern Style Gilmer cogged Belt.These Engines turn just shy of 10,000rpm and go 500race miles with no timing issues. You don't need to feel sorry for me because my Projector along with every other Eastman 30/40 and 285 uses this Belt System. It was a tried and tested Revision improvement that Kodak Engineers knew was reliable and accurate... [beer]

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Chevy Nascar RO7 Racing Engine w/ Gilmer Style cogged Timing Belt

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
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 - posted 08-19-2014 10:53 AM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve, If you actually worked as a tech in this industry as long as I have then you would know about a thousand reasons not to use glimmer belts. Simplex, Christie, Shakeamecanicca, et ell. Even in an engine they have a finite life span. Today they are used because they are cheap. Note that Motiograph and Century among others used timing chain drive on their sound repro. to projector drive. Century switched to timing belts in the 1960's at some point. But Century was pretty much ruined by then anyway. The earlier Eastmans with direct drive is the only way to go. They never ever wear out or break down. What is so antiquated about the synchro gearing. It's only in play while the motors start up to keep the intermittent and shutter phase locked. Then the gears don't even make contact with each other. It's simple and elegant with nothing to break down ever.

The best example of not to use Gilmer belts is the Christie P-35GPS projector. What an f$$king mess those made inside the projector! It was not until near the end of projector manufacturing at Christie that the projector finally ran correctly after replacement of the entire belt system with a different belt and pulley system. For the forth or fifth time. They made one projector right from the beginning... The Cine-X35. It only ran well because it's belt and pulley system was eventually the one adapted to the P-35.

Simplex... 5-Star pulleys that constantly wear out, if new pulleys are not installed at a certain point the new belts have a very short life span. Same in the P-35!

In the end the thing that saved all these projectors were metric round tooth timing belts. All the bull shitting around all those years and theaters that bothered to update actually got a couple years of trouble free service out of them all,the while theaters that has Simplex four star hardly ever had breakdowns.

Direct drive with gearing is always better. Even real race engines used all geared cam shaft systems... They make that pleasant whining sound.

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Mark

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 08-19-2014 12:17 PM      Profile for Steve Matz   Email Steve Matz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Nobody in Racing uses that PETE JACKSON Gear drive anymore and they weren't Quiet. You could hear those things turning with your Stereo turned up. You needed the 2 idler gears(more friction and drag) to keep Clockwise Distributor Rotation. If you Ran a Single Cam Gear to crank gear(chevy truck engines) than you need a reverse rotation distributor, Those Jackson Drives are old School, I would have stuck with just a double Cloyes setup like most of the Racers did...Now it's belts and nobody is worse off...

When was the last time you built a real Race Engine?

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Mark Gulbrandsen
Resident Trollmaster

Posts: 16657
From: Music City
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-19-2014 02:38 PM      Profile for Mark Gulbrandsen   Email Mark Gulbrandsen   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't have much interest in engines Steve... But Friends of mine do and they have a dragster they built that I do go watch run from time to time. You can argue till your blue in the face in support of gilmer belts. Not many tech's on here that have ended up with black crud all over their hands and clothes are going to support that though. In the case of projectors gilmer belts are absolutely the cheaper way to go. I used one to drive my VistaVision projector. If they are more efficient or not depends on the actual use and the downsides of them far outweigh any efficiency gains there may be in projectors.

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Steve Matz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 672
From: Billings, Montana, USA
Registered: Sep 2003


 - posted 08-19-2014 05:44 PM      Profile for Steve Matz   Email Steve Matz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark;If they weren't reliable and virtually trouble free;Than Industries wouldn't bother using them.Who wants to have to do Warranty Work which only comes back on the MFGer in Costs.My Projector has the Original Belt installed back in 1968. The Belt shows no signs of Deterioration and the Transport still projects a Rock Steady Image just like the day it was New. 46 Years with the same Belt; I would say that's pretty reliable. I doubt Kodak was worrying about saving a few bucks;Those Projectors were Expensive to begin with and only Select Institutions,Theaters,Film Libraries,etc. even considering buying them.

In fact what I paid for this Thing back then;I could have bought for several hundred dollars more 2 Corvette Stingrays. Now that I know what you can get for a 68 Vette these Days I should have Gone the Car Route and Forgotten about the Projector Completely because even as cherry & pristine as it is,nobody is going to Pay that kind of Money for past technology superceded by what we have Today...

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What both Street and Racing Engine Now Use for Timing

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James Westbrook
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1133
From: Lubbock, Texas, Usa
Registered: Mar 2006


 - posted 08-19-2014 10:33 PM      Profile for James Westbrook   Email James Westbrook   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This thread was driven off course as quick as those race cars launch when the light turns green...

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