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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Potts Platter brain wrapping at end of show (Page 5)

 
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Author Topic: Potts Platter brain wrapping at end of show
Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-07-2002 12:38 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The bearings are generic for the spindles. The A-3 Potts/Strong use a Timkin bearing. Just remove the bearing and the race, get the number off the bearing, and go to any good automotive parts store or bearing distributer and they will be able to match it up.

The spindle bearings on the old Orange Potts and Blue CFS platters are automotive rear axle bearings that were pressed on to the axles back in the '50's, '60's, and '70's. Again, take one out, get the number from it, and match it up.

If you have excessive slop in the bearings, do not condemn the bearings until you have checked the following:

On the Xetron platters, chances are the weld on the spindle to the bracket has broken. It was a flimsy weld. People have a tendency to use the platter disks as a step ladder, and the weld on the spindles can't handle that. I call that the "Step Ladder Syndrome"

On the A-3's, more than likely, the spindle is loose. Take the bottom cover off the arm, get a BIG wrench, and tighten it down. The socket you need is at least 1 inch, but I forgot the size. I *think* you can get it tight enough with a combination wrench if you don't want to fiddle with the wiring. Again, the "Step Ladder Syndrome" probably caused them to work loose.

On orange and blue Potts/CFS platters, the bearing might be just plain worn out, but I doubt it. Check the spindle mounting for broken welds like the Xetron.

I have only seen one CFS spindle go goofy. They can take 10 times more abuse than any other platter when it comes to the Step Ladder Syndrome.

What the rest of the manufacturers use, I really don't know, and I really don't care. But I'll bet you can find them in a bearing supply house without any trouble.

Don't forget to get new seals!


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Joe Redifer
You need a beating today

Posts: 12859
From: Denver, Colorado
Registered: May 99


 - posted 07-07-2002 01:46 AM      Profile for Joe Redifer   Author's Homepage   Email Joe Redifer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So a lot of people here are microswitch fanatics, eh? So what do y'all think of the ORC/CFS Super Platters? They use microswitch controls. So they MUST be good. Right? They have rollers around the brain, so they MUST rock. Right? They use super high torque vacuum cleaner motors. So they MUST be reliable platters. Right? They have a single variac that simultaneously controls the speed of all 3 decks. So they MUST kick ass. Right? They require that you thread over an extra roller when going to the top deck. So the design MUST be flawless. Right? They have fins (fan blades) underneath each spinning deck. So these platters MUST be fabulous. Right? They use a horizontal make up table. So they MUST rule. Right? No way a Christie could ever be as good as a Super Platter. Right?


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-07-2002 01:57 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have the impression that Joe is trying to tell us something, but I am not sure what it is. Is he trying to tell us they are ? I wonder how I got that impression.

Yeah, Joe. The vacuum sweeper motors have anough suction to draw the north end of a southbound skunk through its south end. Check out the Suk-O-Lux vacuum sweeper in the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" - that should prove it. I'll bet it was powered by an Strong A-3 or a CFS Platter Motor.


The Christie motor doesn't have enough "oomph" to toss the print on the floor and sheer off the payout head slicker than elephant snot on a brass doorknob like the Strongs, CFS, Potts, Xetrons, AW-1's, AW-2's, and the LP-270's are perfectly capable of doing. Those platters have balls. When these were manufactured, the design factor of "job security for the projectionist" comes to mind. The manufacturers were just looking out for us poor slobs running this shit, right?

Now a real good point of the Eprad platters is that they require a projectionist at all times to give it a push when the selonoids, clutches, or the Maytag washing machine motor takes a dump. Again, Eprad was thinking of us - Job security.

Not only that, but the "shaft" up the middle keeps the print on the platter.

Then, along came the AW-3R. It is so sleek, so smooth, and so reliable that nobody needs to pay attention to them. The projectionist feels like a Maytag repairman with nothing to do. He/she jazzes around in the projection booth getting lazy, watches TV, the movies themselves, gets in the way of the rest of the employees so they can't do their job, and corporate sees this as a chance to strike. And, they do. They replace all the qualified operators with popcorn salespeople (some of which cannot even operate a broom) and expect to have a top-notched quality presentation.

After several years, the AW-3 starts to get a little upset because of the lack of attention, and changes a few internal settings like the robot in "Short Circuit." By then, it is too late. The AW-3 will wait for a chance to strike back, and it will - during a full house of a blockbuster movie when the platter is being used as a take-up device with three or more houses interlocked to it, and a popcorn salesman/manager with the intellegience of a Granite rock is at the helm.

Ooooo, goodie! I went to work for a theatre when I quit MTS and came back to Washington State in March of 1983. The theatre I went to work for fit the above criteria. It was so bad, the owner of that little Tri-Plex was told by the film companies "you better get someone who knows what the hell they are doing in the booth, or we won't let you have any more of our films to shread on the first night."

Enter the Weenie Man...

In other words, ladies and gentlemen, all platters have their good points and bad points. Some swear by a particular brand, and some swear at them. If you look at the number of Potts, CFS, Christie, LP Asscociates, Xetrons, and others as well, they have obvoiusly earned the respect of those in the industry, namely us.

Most machines, if properly maintained, will run for years without too much of a problem. On the other side of the same token, you can take the best there is, neglect it, abuse it, and ignore it, it will not perform as expected for very long.

Personally, I will accept any of the platters I have mentioned above in my booth, with the exception of the Eprad, the AW-1 or AW-2. You get what you pay for.

Paul



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Wes Hughes
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 175
From: Raleigh, NC, USA
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 07-08-2002 06:14 PM      Profile for Wes Hughes   Email Wes Hughes   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
To time a 3-deck Potts/Strong/Ballantyne, follow the instructions. Ideally all platters should have motors with new or similarly aged brushes and armatures, and new drive wheel tires. The variacs moving parts should be cleaned.

Time according to the manual.

Then move the motors up 1/8 to 1/4 of an inch. The platters will run a bit slow, and the film will fall behind...sometimes a full wrap or two (especially during the first roll of a long, heavy print), but I have never seen any film damage.

A five-deck's middle platter takes a bit more tweaking, but I have got three 5-decks that have never given me any trouble with timing issues (one microswitch, two phase-control).

It is odd that I hardly ever had the trouble of a Strong running too fast...ESPECIALLY with those somewhat crappy phase-control things. When I bought the phase control modules I could hardly get them to keep up...had to order a larger drive hub for the motor spindle...no more problems. Strong told me to adjust the LED brightness inside the modules...didn't work.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-09-2002 10:36 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
OK, who knows...what is the biggest cause of the phase control's failures? I have heard lots of those fail, but nobody seems to have addressed the cause.

LED failure? Too much current through the SCR/Triac? (or whatever they use)

If it is a current related issue, that can be easily fixed by using a ballast resistor across the SCR/Triac - just like CFS and the older Potts used. I have to agree...adjustment of the LED brightness has very little (if any) effect.

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Brooks M. Davies
Film Handler

Posts: 28
From: Killeen, TX, USA
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 07-10-2002 12:14 AM      Profile for Brooks M. Davies   Email Brooks M. Davies   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
just thought id throw in my 2 cents here ive used both models and currently have an all strong booth, the only time a print is moved, thrown, etc is when the timing is out, other than that its upkeep on the strongs to make them work well, all the time, much more than the christies. all the little rollers is what (to me) damages the film, those little bugers have to be cleaned and checked regularly, with the brain, the control arm bearings are a monthly cleaning chore that has to be done, along with the contact point of the relay or switch in the brain, yes they are loud and the motors are loud, but ive found you take care of them, they take care of you, well alot of care that is. Way more than the cristies i feel. I am not a fan of the breakdown tables though, wish i had my old set up but.... hey what about strong brain wrap detectors nothing like having 3 more little rollers to deal with!

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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 07-10-2002 01:11 AM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul:

The most common failures of the phase control is the SCR gets shorted or else someone takes the cover off and tries to 'adjust' the LED or the pot. In all the phase controls I have repaired I have never had the LED go bad. Usually the SCR shorts or goes open or the 10 amp soldered in pico fuse blows.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-10-2002 01:15 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ken, it sure sounds like surge current failures to me.....like raising the dancer with the motor switches on. What is your opinion?

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Ken Layton
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1452
From: Olympia, Wash. USA
Registered: Sep 1999


 - posted 07-10-2002 01:37 AM      Profile for Ken Layton   Email Ken Layton   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul:

I use an S6020L scr as a replacement (600 volt, 20 amp, isolated tab) and I buy mine from Mouser (part number 519-S6020L) for about $2.25 each. I have never had any of the replacements I use fail. I would agree surge current kills the originals. The original scr is a S4015L which you can just about guess it's specs by it's part number.

I also convert the earlier # 001-0037-R2 boards into the -R3 version for more reliability. It's easy just change the value of 3 parts:
Change the 1N4750a (27 volt 1 watt) zener to 1N4745a (16 volt 1 watt).
Change the 33 ohm 1/4 watt to 10 ohm 1/4 watt.
Change the 330 ohm 1/4 watt to 470 ohm 1/4 watt.

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-10-2002 03:29 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Thanks, Ken. This may breath new hope in those controls. Unfortunately, I don't have any to try. I threw them all out.

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Mike Fitzgerald
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 224
From: Castle Hayne, NC, USA
Registered: Jun 2002


 - posted 07-10-2002 10:54 PM      Profile for Mike Fitzgerald   Email Mike Fitzgerald   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok all I have replaced all the microswitches in the platter. I was now going to time them. I noticed that the top deck does not hit the drive tires all the way around only about 50% of the time. I have a extra deck so thinking it was warped I changed it out,no help at all. I also have looked in the books I downloaded and the one Potts sent me that there are 2 different ways they say to time the platter. The first way says to lift the dancer arm and push the pin in the hole then put your deck in takeup. If you do this the deck runs at least 1 rev every 2 seconds and there is no way to slow it down from there. The other way is to hook up the makeup table to the platter and set it to turn about 20 rpm or 3-4 seconds per rev. But is it a random speed or is there a set position to turn the control up to. Any help out there. Thanks

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 07-10-2002 11:01 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mike, if you have the A3 Strong or Potts, the mast has two holes. The upper hole is the timing hole, and the lower is the threading hole. Use the timing hole. The two holes are roughly about 2 inches apart.

You will have to re-position the motors so the rubber tires come in contact with the platter. If memory serves me correctly, the motor is bolted to the platter with two screws. The rear one can be a problem to get to.


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