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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » How to stretch the width of a 1.85 : 1 image ? (Page 2)

 
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Author Topic: How to stretch the width of a 1.85 : 1 image ?
Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-07-2002 12:34 PM      Profile for Pat Moore   Email Pat Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Welcome as well to Film-Tech. You'll find this can be a helpful forum.

You are in a no-win situation if you want to fill the screen. The alternatives described are really bad options, as I think everyone has been very clear about. Ideally, you want to show the 1.85:1 ratio correctly, uncropped (NOT cropped to 2:1) and NOT stretched. If that leaves some screen uncovered on each side, find comfort that you are giving a presentation the way it's intended by the film makers. Then see if you can put a little money aside to save for side-masking.

As for xenon -- yes, it would do a very good job on your screen. Xenon will provide a more consistent and generally "whiter" light on screen than carbons. There are other variables as well -- lenses, screen type and condition, etc. that should be considered as well in such an upgrade.

Best Wishes as you move ahead,

Pat

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Alex Grasic
Film Handler

Posts: 90
From: Toronto, ON, Canada
Registered: Jul 2002


 - posted 08-07-2002 12:58 PM      Profile for Alex Grasic   Email Alex Grasic   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My mistake, I must have gotten them confused with other trailers!

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Kamakshipalya Dhananjay
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 190
From: Bangalore, India
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 08-07-2002 11:53 PM      Profile for Kamakshipalya Dhananjay   Email Kamakshipalya Dhananjay   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What percentage of movie theatres in the United States still illuminate their projectors on Carbon ? I guess the percentage must be very small.

As fas as I know, there are hardly any cinemas in SINGAPORE and GERMANY which use Carbon and theatres at both these locations seem to be some of the best in the world. In fact, some of the newest Multiplexes in INDIA are entirely inspired by cinemas in these locations.

FYI, of the 13600 registered single screen cinema theatres in INDIA, 13520 single screen cinemas are run on carbon as of today.

Multiplexes are not permitted under the Law except in these STATES :
NEW DELHI (15 screens opened as of now)
MAHARASTRA (Pune and Mumbai have 36 screens opened as of now)
GUJARAT ( 35 screens as of now)
All of the above screens are run on XENON only.

In my city of BANGALORE, the XENON projectors are now the newest thing to happen. In six months time, at least 10 screens should convert to XENON from Carbon. Including myself.

Let me further ask here if anyone uses the new SCHNEIDER SUPER CINELUX INTEGRATED ANAMORPHIC lens and clarify whether on a comparison, the ACADEMY AWARD for technical achievement that was bestowed on SCHNEIDER CINELUX series predates or outdates another award that was bestowed on ISCO-optic Lenses.

I ask this question because ISCO-optic lenses are believed and are claimed to allow more light on the screen than the SCHNEIDER lenses. In a brochure for ISCO that is circulated in INDIA, the light readings for ISCO vis-a-vis the SCHNEIDER lens are presented (as recorded in the ACADEMY screening room) and the ISCO lens appear to be a very clear winner.

But without any such reference, the new SCHNEIDER SUPER CINELUX INTEGRATED ANAMORPHIC lens also claim that they allow more light to pass onto the screen than any other lens.

Besides, there is much reference to how many elements are composed in a lens.

WHile ISCO stops with 6 elements SCHNEIDER claims to be of 10 elements.

As such, does anybody have a take on which one to choose -

The new ISCO INTEGRATED ANAMORPHIC LENS or
The new SCHNEIDER SUPER CINELUX INTEGRATED ANAMORPHIC LENS ?

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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 08-08-2002 12:14 AM      Profile for William Hooper   Author's Homepage   Email William Hooper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
FYI, of the 13600 registered single screen cinema theatres in INDIA, 13520 single screen cinemas are run on carbon as of today

What do they do with all those carbon trims?


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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 08-08-2002 04:10 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
So let me get this straight....there are more screens in India still being lit by carbon arc than all the screens combined that are being lit by xenon in the US?!! Then what is this myth that carbons are not being manufactured any more and all that bulderdash about, "Oh, if you know what's good for you will be install xenon before it's impossible for you to get carbons any more," that I keep hearing? HUH?

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 08-08-2002 08:53 AM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the carbons made in India are available in the same sizes as those that were available elsewhere, perhaps there is an opportunity to export them, if the quality is good.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 08-08-2002 11:20 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If Schneider is claiming 10 elements then surely you are referring to an integrated lens and counting all elements. The anamorphic portion presumably uses 4 elements (2 cylindrical doublets).

ISCO's "Blue Star" anamorphic lens or anamorphic portion of the integrated lens uses 6 elements and is described as being an entirely new design. The integrated version will naturally be using many more than 6 elements if the elements of the conventional part of the lens are being counted as well. The number probably varies with the particular focal length.

I love my Blue Stars. I'm on screen with them right now as I write this. Too bad it's a Super 35 blowup and not "real" scope but rest assured that every grain in the blowup is in precise focus.

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Pat Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 363

Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 08-08-2002 03:58 PM      Profile for Pat Moore   Email Pat Moore   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi; Both ISCO and Schneider received technical achievement awards for lens design in the same year. I do feel the ISCO developments were more deserving of recognition.

Both are good lenses, let's face it. But I have had great results with the PLUS compared to any other lenses. While the advertising you have seen may be a little bit of a "best case scenario", I have yet to see less than a 20% increase in light throughput in the tests I've run, regardless of the lens I test against.

I'm sure Steve is right. Be careful when counting elements. The "integrated" scope lenses consist of a primary lens, generally the same lens as generally available alone, that is "close-coupled" to a small profile anamorphic. The anamorphics used in these integrated lenses are all four-elements, from what I've seen, both ISCO's and Schneiders.

ISCO's Ultra-Star * HD Cinemascope, the separate attachment, has five elements, while the top-of-the-line Blue Star Cinemascope has six. Depending on the primary lens you couple one of these adapters to, you could total 12 to 15 elements in the assembly.

Are more elements good? Depends on the design and focal length. Chances are good that they will be more expensive.

Primary lenses will vary in number of elements, generally according to focal lengths. Shorter focal lengths generally require more elements -- a 30mm focal length has a lot more complicated light bending job to do than a 70mm EF.

Pat


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Paul Cassidy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 549
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: Aug 2001


 - posted 08-08-2002 04:18 PM      Profile for Paul Cassidy   Author's Homepage   Email Paul Cassidy   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry to say that I have used a supply of Carbons , which the manager brought back from India and they were not the best , although there could better manufacturers than the type we used , but these ones keep spitting and sent me up the wall as I tried to keep a steady light on the screen

------------------
A KIWI eats,roots & Leaves.

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Torsten Jasper
Film Handler

Posts: 15
From: Braunschweig, Niedersachsen, Germany
Registered: Aug 2003


 - posted 09-03-2003 11:45 PM      Profile for Torsten Jasper     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"As fas as I know, there are hardly any cinemas in SINGAPORE and GERMANY which use Carbon and theatres at both these locations seem to be some of the best in the world. In fact, some of the newest Multiplexes in INDIA are entirely inspired by cinemas in these locations."

No way, in Germany there are only a few theaters still using carbon.
Remember, famous Osram short arc lamps are made in Germany.

"Let me further ask here if anyone uses the new SCHNEIDER SUPER CINELUX INTEGRATED ANAMORPHIC lens and clarify whether on a comparison, the ACADEMY AWARD for technical achievement that was bestowed on SCHNEIDER CINELUX series predates or outdates another award that was bestowed on ISCO-optic Lenses."
We use both, Schneider and ISCO, its hard to tell I believe ISCO is better, best is ISCO Blue-Star Anamorphic Lens. They are also made in Germany.

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Evans A Criswell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1579
From: Huntsville, AL, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 09-04-2003 09:54 AM      Profile for Evans A Criswell   Author's Homepage   Email Evans A Criswell   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
When I read this thread this morning, I found it somewhat humorous, since it's the old Cobb problem in reverse. Cobb built theatres to crop scope to 1.85:1 in 2/3 of their auditoriums here, a mess that Regal went in and fixed, thankfully. I'd never think a theatre would have the opposite problem -- cropping or stretching flat films to fill a scope screen. Many flat films are so tightly composed that cropping them vertically and magnifying them more would cut off many titles and important parts of the images. A Cobb theatre that used to be here in Huntsville from 1982 to 2000 had one screen with adjustable masking and the other 7 were 2.00:1 where both formats were cropped. Flat films often had their titles cut off and there were many Warner Brothers haircuts in flat films at that place. It would be far worse if they were cropped to 2.39:1.

I'd hate to see a new trend toward ignoring the original format and composition of a movie and making all movies fit whatever screen is in place. Cobb did that for many years (and hopefully they're not still doing it in their new theatres). The only good thing that could come out of making flat films fit scope screens is maybe the studios would start making all scope films and abandon the flat format, which was a kludge from the start. It seems there are more scope films being made nowadays.

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