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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Loop loss in Simplex 4 Star soundhead w/reels (Page 3)

 
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Author Topic: Loop loss in Simplex 4 Star soundhead w/reels
Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-14-2002 08:07 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sticking meter? You mean there is something other than a DIGITAL ammeter? Come on get on the DIGITAL bandwagon...if it is digital, it HAS to be better!

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-14-2002 12:49 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unfortunately, there are many analog meters in service. However, there some applications where I prefer to use an analog meter.

Most of the time I use digital meters because of their accuracy. The meter I used for the tests was a digital line clamp. It is far more accurate than my old Amprobe.


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Gordon McLeod
Film God

Posts: 9532
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-15-2002 11:44 AM      Profile for Gordon McLeod   Email Gordon McLeod   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul said"Last week, we had an intermittant seize up, and it pulled the motor down to a complete stop. How long stayed in that position before the power was shut off, I don't know. It is an unmanned booth. When I got there and diagnosed the problem as a locked up movement, there was no apparent damage to the motor. However, it did take out the motor's circuit breaker. If it had not, that power resistor could have started a fire. There was evidence of adjacent wire overheating in the resistor's area. That resistor must have become hotter than Hell before the breaker tripped.

After I turned three sheets of green in color, I have immediately decided to convert to a start-winding ballast as soon as I possibly can. In event of a lock-up, it'll probably take the breaker out faster, hopefully. I think the ballast will still protect the start windings from burning out, especially with projector No. 3. Just a guess, but I think the resistor in No. 3 is rated at about 50 watts"


Probably the resitor save the machine from other gear damage when it locked up

THe resistor should be mounted in a ventelaited metal cabinet and heagt resistant wire is normally used (appliance)
The wattage should be 200 watts in most applications not 50


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-15-2002 01:40 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The gears on the vertical shaft were severly damaged. I had a "spare" vertical shaft assembly from a junk machine that saved the day.

The Gould (Century) motor that I did testing on probably is a 50 Ohm power resistor which has been in service for at least 20 years now. If it is a 2 Ohm resistor, there is just no way it could be a 200-Watt device It is just too physically small. The Gould motor that is on the other machine (by the looks of the ratings) is a very efficient motor as compared to the others I tested. That 50-Watt (if that is what it is) resistor is in the start winding circuit only.

If the use of the 200 Watt resistor desired to be placed in series with the motor, mount it as Gordon suggests to be on the safe side. Don't use any power rating smaller than 200 Watts for this purpose as Gordon already pointed out. I certainly agree with Gordon about that.

As for me, I won't use them in series with the motor. I am converting mine to the way they did it 70 years ago.

Next time I get a chance, I'll verify the rating on that specific resistor used in the Gould motor. I will also verify the size if the resistor in the R&M motor used with the on the 1040 and 1050 soundheads. I am guessing R&M used about a 100-Watt resistor used with the start winding. I would also guess that the power rating and electrical reisitance value of the resistor selected by the motor manufacturer was based on operating characteristics and efficiency of the motor.

Whatever the values are, I'll let you all know as soon as I find out. I might also point out that the less efficient motor may require a 2-Ohm resistor greater than 200 watts, depending on how big of a power hog the motor is.

If the motor is really a big power hog, maybe a 1 Ohm 200-Watt power resistor might be a better answer. There are several variables to take into consideration when the correct size is selected. The "One Fits All" theory may not always be the best solution.



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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 17775
From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall)
Registered: May 99


 - posted 09-15-2002 02:55 PM      Profile for Brad Miller   Author's Homepage   Email Brad Miller       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul, I ended up selecting a 2 ohm 200 watt for my JJs. I found the 1 ohm just didn't make enough of a difference to bother with. They are indeed quite large, as big as a baby's arm. They will only heat up during the starting, so unless you have people in your booth who like to jog the motor, you could actually hold them in your bare hands. Still though, definitely mount them someplace where if it was to heat up could not cause a fire.


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Dick Prather
Master Film Handler

Posts: 259
From: Portland, OR, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 09-15-2002 03:28 PM      Profile for Dick Prather   Email Dick Prather   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If memory serves we also used 2 ohm, 200 watt resisters at the Portland Fox. They were fastened inside the Simplex heavy duty bases away from everything so you had to open the base doors to get to them. We had to thread on 7 1/2 to 8 because of the slow start. Never did snap a film there. We instructed operators never to jog start, always use the inching knob.
Dick


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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-15-2002 03:56 PM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Brad, I'll bet you have a very efficient motor on your JJ's. It would not surpise me if you found out the motors were running at about 3 amps or less under load. If you have capacitor start, capacitor run motors, it may be even less than that. Those motors are extremely efficient.

Dick, that is a very good call. Too many people "bump" the motors to verify the projector threading. As you, Gordon and I know, that is a very bad practice and is nothing short of abusing the machinery.

Brad, if you have people doing that to your machines, throw them out of your booth! I would if it were mine...

Looking at the RCA 1040 setup, the R&M motor on the 1040 soundheads use a 40-Ohm starting resistor. The resistor is rated at 70 Watts. Mine is tapped at 26 Ohms. See page 17 of the 1040 manual from the FT Archives.

Below is a picture from the manual. Pardon the quality, as I took a picture of my monitor screen.

Below is a picture from the Oak Harbor booth. The left picture shows the location of the power resistor in the ORC Console. The picture on the right is apparently a factory aftermarket slow start kit.

The advice that Gordon, Dick, and Brad has made is right on target. If those big "dogbones" are installed, mount those things where it cannot set something else on fire.



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William Hooper
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1879
From: Mobile, AL USA
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 09-16-2002 12:15 AM      Profile for William Hooper   Author's Homepage   Email William Hooper   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It was the clutch, the only part I hadn't pulled to pieces because it's simple & dumb & nothing ever goes wrong with it. It's fixed, thanks to all, especially Dick Prather who nailed it straight on with diagnosis & adjustment. It's a flat clutch, and with one-flat-at-a-time adjustment got right to where I like it.

I forgot to take pictures, but fyi the magazines are 2,000 foot silver painted Simplex magazines. There are some Simplex magazines for big reels here too, but they're black ones from some old XL or something.
1. there's no real reason to strap them on for a booth with just occasional shows & no 3D foreseen
2. The top one might foul the wall
3. It's nice when all the projector is more or less the same color.

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 09-16-2002 12:17 AM      Profile for Steve Guttag   Email Steve Guttag   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Century box with the 25-Ohm resistor is a factory (of the era) slow start kit.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Paul G. Thompson
The Weenie Man

Posts: 4718
From: Mount Vernon WA USA
Registered: Nov 2000


 - posted 09-16-2002 12:53 AM      Profile for Paul G. Thompson   Email Paul G. Thompson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
William, I am happy to hear you have the problem resolved.

Steve, thanks for the info. Those kits work very well! There is absolutely no signs of overheating or deterioration. Since it is using a 25-Ohm resistor and the R&M uses one at 26 Ohms, the 25-Ohm is what I will experiment with. Since the Dayton motor is so much of a power hog, I will stay in the vicinity of a 70 to 100-Watt rating and get rid of those big 200-Watt dinosaurs. If I have to mount it in the console, I will put a heat shield in it to keep any heat away from the wiring in event of a starter switch failure.



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