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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1 2 3
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Author
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Topic: 16mm projectors
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 09-12-2002 01:50 PM
If the industry is so gal-dang consumed by saving print costs -- all those billions of dollars they think DLP will save them -- then they should revisit the Eastman 25B project. The technical research was done; they know it can work and now with the advantage of adding a DTS track and thus multichannel sound, the 16mm house would be indistinguishable from any 35mm house with small to medium size screens. The main concern about the original system's limitation (low-fidelity mono sound) is overcome. AND 25B's track record is known -- we know how it will perform after being in service for 25 years. Plus, it wouldn't cost exhibitors nearly as much as the cost of DLP and it would be appropriate for a goodly percentage of all those small multiplexes that have undersized screens. In our 500 seat house with a 13 ft screen, it looks acceptable. But "acceptable" shouldn't be a goal, it's a compromise and I would be against it in principal because how much more unacceptable would a dirty, splicy 16mm image look on the screen when it is run in a dirty, poorly operated booth, that small filmstrip handled by untrained people? It will look much MUCH worse than badly run 35mm. But from an exhibitor's point of view who's faced with the cost of DLP for his small screen rooms, the cost of "enhanced" 16mm vs DLP, well, there is no contest. Even AMC/Technicolor's Compact Distribution Print idea would be cheaper than 16mm (the exhib gets to use his existing equipment) but without the disadvantages of the smaller gauge film. The enhanced 16mm project as well as the CDPrint project are steps backwards and that's one of the main reasons why they didn't fly. DLP may see the same fate....at least the designers of the former systems understood the need to address the economic model issue in any new technology -- they didn't design them so that their only market-base would be multibillion dollar corporations with unlimited cash-flow.
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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000
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posted 09-14-2002 07:10 PM
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Sad thing is that Bauer has been out of business since early 80's
-----------------------------------------------------------------The thing is, that Bauer made their stuff to damn'ed good - Noone ever had to buy new projectors, when they've first had Bauer's in the house.
Not only the 16mm's, but also B11, B12, B14, even U2 are running all over Europe as today. Spare parts ? -Sure, but for what ? They don't break down !
I've had two Bauer B 5 - origin 1937, as far is i know. -One ran 4 shows a day until mid nineties... Wish i had room for a stationary 16mm projector. -I haven't, so i must do with one of those "film-eating" little B&H autoload things, which can spare the window with the DP70. -It runs nice, btw, as long as leaders are ok... Per
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 09-15-2002 05:46 PM
Per said, >It runs nice, btw, as long as leaders are ok...< OR until here comes a series of torn sprocket holes, then it looses the loop and instantly turns into a Cuisenart for film. To say nothing of the ordeal of trying to extract the film once it has been threaded, without having to actually tear it from this horror of a machine. All I want to know is, what is it about threading a 16mm machine that is SOOOOO complicated that B&H thought they needed an autothreading projector....for TEACHERS no less....those of superior intellect (or so the story goes) who we entrust to teach our progeny?  It takes longer to fix the leaders so they will go into the thing as it does to threat the older, manual B&Hs You would think threading a projector was as complicated as doing brain surgery.
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Gerard S. Cohen
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 975
From: Forest Hills, NY, USA
Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 09-15-2002 11:47 PM
I've used Bell & Howell auto-threading 16mm projectors for years, and found a chief cause of film damage to come from hardening of the lubricant in the somewat complicated drive mechanism. That results in the loop-forming linkage not snapping back briskly. Dissolving the old grease and re-lubing the inner plastic slip-clutches and oiling the metal external parts can restore the auto-thread assembly to proper working.In schools, with 40 minute periods, crowded hallways and staircases, and the need for many teachers to share a few projectors, the machines used to be delivered and operated by children in A/V squads, who were programmed to be available for this service. This was not a happy situation, and proper maintenance and repair was often neglected. Many teachers hadn't the preparation time to set up, thread and run the machines while doing hall patrol, getting from room to room, and supervising students, let alone teaching! Bell & Howell machines are often maligned, perhaps because librarians recall that some of the early silent 16s had a tiny metal roller that sometimes left a scratch in the center of the film. Spring drive cables on the models 179 through 385 series tended to break, and the glass bulbs might become deformed, making them hard to change without breaking them. But when carefully maintained, I think the B & H, like the Ampros, gave decades of yeoman service to schools, libraries and the military. (Witness the JAN series of rugged military machines.)
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Frank Angel
Film God
Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 09-16-2002 02:32 PM
Can you believe it....we had "film done right" in our blood even back then. What were we, 12, 13 years old on that A/V Squad? Far from being the "geeky" thing to do as some think, rewriting history, being on the squad was nearly as prestigous as being on one of the athletic teams, the main reason being, we got passes to go any place any time, AND to cut certain classes (in school, it doesn't get any better than that). The teachers had to wait on the A/V guys (no girls were in it in my school). If we didn't show up, the teacher had to fidget and wait -- a fact that wasn't lost on the rest of our peers. Even the jocks couldn't do that. And whereas the jocks were seen by teachers as priveliged and arrogant because they got excused from this class or that assignment, the A/V guys were seen as indespensible to them. We provided a service that gave that teacher 40 minutes of not having to shout "Sit down and be quiet." When the kids saw us coming, they knew most of the class was going to be work-free. Plus, we got to run MOVIES....how cool was THAT?!! Frank
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John Pytlak
Film God
Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 09-16-2002 02:45 PM
Frank Angel wrote: "Can you believe it....we had "film done right" in our blood even back then. What were we, 12, 13 years old on that A/V Squad? Far from being the "geeky" thing to do as some think, rewriting history, being on the squad was nearly as prestigous as being on one of the athletic teams, the main reason being, we got passes to go any place any time, AND to cut certain classes (in school, it doesn't get any better than that).
The teachers had to wait on the A/V guys (no girls were in it in my school). If we didn't show up, the teacher had to fidget and wait -- a fact that wasn't lost on the rest of our peers. Even the jocks couldn't do that. And whereas the jocks were seen by teachers as priveliged and arrogant because they got excused from this class or that assignment, the A/V guys were seen as indespensible to them. We provided a service that gave that teacher 40 minutes of not having to shout "Sit down and be quiet." Plus, we got to run MOVIES....how cool was THAT?!!"What a great story idea for a movie!: "I Was a Teen-Aged Projectionist" or "The A/V Guy" or "Film Geeks Get the Girls". Will you play the role of the A/V guy, the teacher, or the old and wise "experienced tech"? ------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
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Jeff Taylor
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 601
From: Chatham, NJ/East Hampton, NY
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 09-16-2002 03:13 PM
John is right about the prestige connected with the A/V "get out of class" pass, and yes, we did take pains to do as professional a show as possible--especially when we got rid of our internal speaker DeVry's and switched to RCA-400's with a separate speaker to put under the screen. In my high school, though, the real mark of achievement in the A/V Dept. was when you made the first team and were selected to show films from the booth in the auditorium. We had a first-class backstage sound board and speakers so the sound was great, but unfortunately still had to make do with those RCA-400's with a 1200w lamp. Given the 3-bladed shutter I cringe thinking about how few lumens we were able to put on the screen in an 800-seat auditorium with a 50' screen! Still, if the print wasn't too dense it was watchable. The big laugh was when we were routinely thrown out of the girls gym classes when they ordered up one of those female "coming of age" movies, and the teacher invariably screwed it up and had to call us back to straighten things out! Ah, maturity.
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