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» Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE   » Operations   » Film Handlers' Forum   » Do you play trailers in digital if the feature is analog? (Page 4)

 
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Author Topic: Do you play trailers in digital if the feature is analog?
Ken McFall
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 615
From: Haringey, London.
Registered: Apr 2001


 - posted 10-05-2002 01:22 PM      Profile for Ken McFall   Email Ken McFall   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ok here goes ...

Dolby Digital Logo's should opnly be played before and if the feature is indeed in Dolby Digital. These are intended to announce the film is in Digital not that the theatre has Digital capability.
In the same way you only run a DTS or SDDS title before and if the film is being played in either of those formats.

THX logos are there to announce you are in a THX cinema. it does not imply Digital / SR / DTS or SDDS just that the cinema you are sitting in is THX certified, you could follow it with the relevent logo if you wanted to.

At no time have I suggested that trailers should be run too loud... just that the level is realistic and not turned down below that level as is implied in some of the replies. Adverts and Trailers are an important part of the 'Show' and an important source of revenue. They all deserve to be played equally...... in my opinion!

With that off my chest I'm off of a very large G & T!!

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002


 - posted 10-05-2002 01:54 PM      Profile for Michael Schaffer   Author's Homepage   Email Michael Schaffer   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Manny,
I was referring to analogue playback under conditions with premium well-aligned equipment and I still think digital sounds much better. It is true that most theaters neglect a-chain alignment and maintenance, but not wherever I work. On the other hand, many theaters are not properly equipped to play digital sound. In the discussion you started about clipping, I wrote a post about dynamic compression and distortion which deals with the subject. I wonder if anyone has read it because it is quite long and theoretical...
SR can sound very good, but in direct comparison to my ears there is a big difference in tone colour, tone "body" and spaciousness as well as dynamics between SR and any of the digital formats, even Dolby Digital.
Thomas, you may be right about the dialogue portions of "Titanic", but you can`t possibly be referring to the scenes where the ship starts to moan and break apart? That sounds much more dramatic with the digital LFE channel. It is quite fresh in my memory because we used to watch portions of "Titanic" as a test reel during the last installation I took part in.
Michael

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 10-05-2002 02:06 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
On the other hand, many theaters are not properly equipped to play digital sound. In the discussion you started about clipping, I wrote a post about dynamic compression and distortion which deals with the subject. I wonder if anyone has read it because it is quite long and theoretical...

Yes. Thanks for the post. I certainly did read it. However, it doesn't do anything to sway my findings in this area.

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David Stambaugh
Film God

Posts: 4021
From: Eugene, Oregon
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 10-05-2002 03:33 PM      Profile for David Stambaugh   Author's Homepage   Email David Stambaugh   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Not a single 1 of Cinemark 17's houses here sounds even remotely close to digital when playing in SR. They have no dynamic range, no bass, and many of them suffer from spitting dialog. Regal Cinema World 8's SR is usually WAY better.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 10-05-2002 04:09 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ah, but is it real Dolby SR or Cat.222SR/A pseudo SR or Brand X SR emulation?

(Steve G.: Ha! Beat ya!)

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Manny Knowles
"What are these things and WHY are they BLUE???"

Posts: 4247
From: Bloomington, IN, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 10-05-2002 06:07 PM      Profile for Manny Knowles   Email Manny Knowles   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I've recently been able to get great sound with the 222SR/A (aka "Dolby Lite") in the CP-45s. It took a lot of itty bitty tweaks -- I spent the better part of a day doing just one -- but the result was well worth it.


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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 10-06-2002 01:22 AM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sorry, I've been away for the day, and missing out on my own thread! Anyway, trailer PLACEMENT shouldn't be at issue since I doubt anyone here would program xXx in front of Lilo & Stitch for example. Trailer VOLUME is an issue, but only to the extent of the additional dynamic headroom afforded by the digital format. The fader setting is not the issue, the dynamic range is --- when we're talking volume. People often equate digital sound with louder sound, and that's only half true. The louds are indeed louder, but the quiets are also quieter. We could discuss our favorite sound format and why if we want to, but for this discussion, we should stick to what happens when we switch from one format to another, and what defines a good switch and a bad switch.

A good one would be one that either a) the audience doesn't notice, because it sounds almost identical to the last thing they heard, or b) the audience does notice, because it sounds BETTER (not necessarily louder) than the last thing they heard.

A bad one would be one that sounds WORSE than the last thing heard, AND it's an unexpected transition. In other words, if you're going to see Gone With The Wind, and the movie sounds worse than the LOTR trailer in front of it, that's ok because it should be an expected transition into the lower sound quality that goes with movies of that era. But, if you're going to see The Four Feathers, and THAT sounds worse than the LOTR trailer in front of it, that is unexpected and therefor a BAD switch.

That's what I think I'm trying to say. Does anyone disagree with any part of that logic? I do appreciate everyone's point of view here either way. This has been a very interesting discussion with lots of excellent points made. It's really made me think about my position on this.

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 10-06-2002 10:54 AM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I understand the logic it's just that I don't think I agree with it. You are wanting to degrade slightly (very slightly if you have good analog playback but degrade none the less) the LOTR trailer's sound and my reaction to that is to point out that given that the trailer is giving snippets of the movie. It is in effect a demo, a short test drive if you will. With that in mind I say give them as close as possible to the actual experience (given that the picture format may not be the same and often trailers, working off dupe footage, don't look that great). If the transition to the feature somehow makes the feature sound worse and the intervening feature presentation strip doesn't provide enough of a bumper then program another trailer in between that is more subdued. OK, I am starting to repeat myself here.

Frankly, I don't think there is anything wrong with such a transition if the feature in question is more subdued simply because that's the kind of film it is. People aren't stupid; they have different expectations from a big adventure film than they do a thoughtful drama. If for whatever reason the LOTR trailer runs just ahead of Gossford Park people understand the differences. I think your concerns are more valid when you have the big digital sound trailer ahead of a similar type of film which either doesn't have digital sound (rare) or only has a brand you don't have on that screen. I would still want the customer to hear how the upcoming film is going to play at this theatre should they choose to view it here--and protect from a jarring transition via the snipe or intervening trailer.


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Mark J. Marshall
Film God

Posts: 3188
From: New Castle, DE, USA
Registered: Aug 2002


 - posted 10-07-2002 08:24 AM      Profile for Mark J. Marshall     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Quote:
Frankly, I don't think there is anything wrong with such a transition if the feature in question is more subdued simply because that's the kind of film it is. People aren't stupid; they have different expectations from a big adventure film than they do a thoughtful drama. If for whatever reason the LOTR trailer runs just ahead of Gossford Park people understand the differences. I think your concerns are more valid when you have the big digital sound trailer ahead of a similar type of film which either doesn't have digital sound (rare) or only has a brand you don't have on that screen.

Yup, that's what I said, or tried to say. I think we can agree that beyond that, it appears to be a matter of taste and personal beliefs. But it always helps to understand why people do things the way they do them, and this topic has pointed out a clear split right down the middle of the participants, which is pretty interesting.

Thanks!

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