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Topic: Source for 11mm carbons?

Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 10-31-2002 03:18 PM

Nitrate will burn underwater; safety won't.

(Kids, don't try this at home!)

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Mitchell Dvoskin
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1869
From: West Milford, NJ, USA
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 11-01-2002 07:16 AM

I've burned a few 2000' foot rolls of decomposing nitrate over the years (nothing rare). It is quite entertaining. I do not think the Monogram print in question is really nitrate, as water will put it out. It burns more like newspaper would burn. It just suprised me, because every other "safety" print I have experimented with stops burning after a few moments.

Moving back to topic (almost), the non-profit Landmark Loews Jersey Theatre is always looking for donations of 13.6mm carbons, if anyone happens to find some laying around.

/Mitchell

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Leo Enticknap
Film God

Posts: 7474
From: Loma Linda, CA
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 11-01-2002 08:43 AM

I have seen many nitrate prints with a 'safety' edge mark. 'High acetyl' triacetate was introduced by Eastman Kodak in the autumn (fall) of 1948, but the manufacture of nitrate did not cease until February 1950. During that time the two bases were used interchangeably. In the camera negative - fine grain pos - dupe neg - print cycle of elements, it would only take one of those to be safety (assuming all the generations were duplicated using continuous contact printing) to introduce an edge mark onto the final print.

Basically, if you can see any 'nitrate' edge marks on an element and the release print stock mark indicates the year of manufacture as being 1950 or earlier (and make sure you are looking at the stock mark of the release print stock, not an earlier generation), then assume it's nitrate until you've tested it.

I agree that this Monogram print is probably acetate, because acetate base has almost identical combustion characteristics to paper. If water will extinguish the fire, it certainly isn't nitrate.

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Tom Doyle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 176
From: Bristol, CT, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-08-2003 11:49 PM

*bump*

So, does anyone here actually use 11mm carbons? I'd like to hear from someone who is satisfied with their supplier. I'm looking for a good source for 11mm pos and 11/32" neg.

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Robert Throop
Master Film Handler

Posts: 412
From: Vernon, NY USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-09-2003 10:37 AM

The Stanley theatre in Utica, NY, The Capitol theatre in Rome, NY and the Landmark (formerly Loew's State) in Syracuse all use 11mm positives and 3/8" negatives.
The Capitol has a show this Friday,April 11 of John Ford's "the Iron Horse" accompanied by Dennis James at the Moller pipe organ.

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John Spooner
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: South Australia, Australia
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 04-09-2003 12:56 PM

Dear John. We have been using the Indian Schutz (Lumex) carbons for some time, importing them from India directly as the local cinema supplier no longer stocks carbons.
They are quite adequate for the purpose and burn well.
John Spooner.

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Per Hauberg
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 883
From: Malling, Denmark
Registered: Jul 2000

posted 04-09-2003 08:22 PM

I've been missing the light and the smell of the carbons for 29 years now. Allready in '74 a smart salesman was on tour all over Denmark to tell us all, that quality carbons were extremly difficult to get "nowadays". He reccomended change to xenon asap. That was the same man who 10 years ago told me, that parts for as well DP70 as Bauer "B" series were out of stock.
AND that's the very same man, i have not been consulting for almost 9 years now.

-But this time it seems pretty serious. Another part of our trade passing by. Is that what they call development..?

p.

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Tom Doyle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 176
From: Bristol, CT, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-09-2003 09:24 PM

Thanks for the responses. I'm actually looking for a source of NEW production 11mm and 11/32" carbons, rather than just buying up old remainders. If anyone can supply me with contact info for such a source, it would be greatly appreciated.

Robert, I'm glad to hear there are still some local theaters that use carbons. Do those NY theaters buy new stock? If so, from where?

John - I saw the Schutz website - they only list up to 9mm, so I ruled them out. What size(s) are you using?

Thanks in advance!

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Robert Throop
Master Film Handler

Posts: 412
From: Vernon, NY USA
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-10-2003 09:33 AM

Tom,
As far as I know all 3 theatres are using up carbons from old stock. None of them runs more than a few shows a year.

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John Spooner
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 186
From: South Australia, Australia
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 04-10-2003 10:27 AM

Dear Tom, we run 7x8 in the carbon arc plants, interesting that Schutz do not list your required size. Maybe if your order was large enough they may run you off a batch, or supply 13mm carbons to order. We have found them ok to deal with.
Maybe an e-mail to them could be advantageous, would be interested in the results.
John S.

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Stephen Furley
Film God

Posts: 3059
From: Coulsdon, Croydon, England
Registered: May 2002

posted 04-10-2003 10:33 AM

The Loew's Jersey were using existing stock last year. Bernie reckoned he had enough positives to keep him going for a couple of years, and more than that of negatives. I'll try to give my lungs a 'fix' of carbon fumes when I'm back there this month. I don't know if they bought any more, while they still could.

According the the Ashcraft manual, the carbons for these lamps were only made by National and Lorraine, an I believe that both have now ceased production.

Over here 'Morganite' and 'Ship' were the carbons which everyone used; niether have been made for years.

Marble Double Eagle are still available, but I don't know for how long.

I have heard rumors that production in China may stop soon. How long existing stocks may last is difficult to say. Other than very large ones, which are still in production in Ireland, photographic flashbulbs haven't been made for years, but there are still plenty of full cases of them available on Ebay, and I have over three thousand mainly smallish ones stashed away.

There are certainly cinemas which still have carbons in store that they haven't used for years. Maybe we need a scheme to introduce people with carbons they don't want to people who don't have carbons they do want. I don't know if National had much product in store when they ceased production. The supply is now wery limited, but a small stock of carbons can last a long time, if the demand is also small.

I hope there will still be somewhere using them for as long as I am around.

There have been reports of poor quality in carbons from India. I think this may really be the end of new production, at least of good carbons.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99

posted 04-10-2003 11:47 AM

So if 11mm carbons are getting hard to find, then what is the expectation for the future availability of 6mm, 7mmm, and 8mm carbons?

I've had no problems with 7mm and 8mm Eagle carbons from Marble (as recently as a few weeks ago), and I'd hate to see the last of the carbon houses convert.due to lack of availability.

(If anyone is really desperate for 6mm and 7mm Nationals--the old, good ones--I can provide them in small quantities. Let me know.)

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Tom Doyle
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 176
From: Bristol, CT, USA
Registered: Nov 2002

posted 04-16-2003 10:33 PM

Apparently, Marble Double Eagles are still available in 11mm. It looks like carbons are not dead yet! I haven't tried contacting Schutz yet - hopefully the Double Eagles will work out.

Some other manufacturers were mentioned in this thread - Ibagawwa (Japanese) and SeaGull (Chinese). I also found mention in another thread of Daiichi Carbon Co (Japanese). Does anyone have the contact info for these, or any others? I don't really need to get in touch with them right now, but it'd be nice if someone could post it for everyone's benefit.

Thanks again!

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