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Topic: CP650 issue?

Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 11-01-2002 09:59 AM

Steve, does that mean that you are a secret fan of SDDS? Yes, the old 2000 units had many flaws, but the 3000 is a very mature and reliable product which unites some of the best that Sony, one of the foremost companies in digital sound for more than 3 decades, has to offer? Or does do you on the contrary mean that you think they shouldn`t have made that excursion into the field of cinema sound?

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-01-2002 12:51 PM

Actually it means BOTH!

Sony certainly showed that it had the upper hand on the Digital EQ and such over the others...however they did bring the Sony arrogance to the table too.

Sony also "dabbled" in the cinema market...the DCP-1000 came and went pretty fast.

The 3000 certainly has some very strong points going for it. But I have also witnessed where Sony updated their firmware on it and what used to work...didn't anymore....lost a DCinema show because of them and their sloppiness. The Sony arrogance also wouldn't allow them to use a common item in their penthouse (3000 series)...the flywheel...that which would have nixed many of their tracking issues...instead they have that magnetic clutch BS. Actually, DTS should have discovered the flywheel by now...it would put an end to the getting the tension and wrap just right stuff.

BTW...it is no secret, I have always preferred the 8-channel sound over the 5.1 offerings or EX.

Of the 3 digital companies out there...two sure seem to support their product more than one. In 10-years, I think the support of two companies will dramatically better than the one.

However, whenever you play with DSP and other VLSI digital stuff, you are playing with borrowed time...the life span of such chips (on the marketplace, not operating hours) is SHORT....even with early offerings from Dolby in the DA-10 and CP-500...the parts become obsolete.

While obsolescence in the analog world also can and does happen, it normally isn't as dramatic an impact..a sub is often available or an improvement can be had with minimal redesign.

Given the choice between high-end analog or digital...high-end analog wins everytime.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000

posted 11-04-2002 01:22 PM

Steve wrote: "Given the choice between high-end analog or digital...high-end analog wins everytime."

Film = High-end analog.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 11-04-2002 05:16 PM

Actually I think the tracking of the 3000 reader is very good. The real problem with the SDDS format is that most labs don`t seem to be able to print the picture side track correctly. You can often see with the naked eye that the track is badly printed. I have been told that this is caused by the design of many printers and also sloppy lab practice such as allowing that side of the raw stock to be exposed to light before printing. I have seen SDDS tracks which were printed correctly and ran flawlessly after literally thousands of times (such as old SDDS logo trailers or demo reels).

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-04-2002 06:12 PM

Coming back to the topic, our 650 unit is still causing troubles.

Does Cp650 has an error log?

Bye
Antonio

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Steve Guttag
We forgot the crackers Gromit!!!

Posts: 12814
From: Annapolis, MD
Registered: Dec 1999

posted 11-04-2002 06:55 PM

Film definately is high-end analog! In fact, the Uptown's current showing of Lawrence of Arabia in 70mm reaffirms my position, that 70mm is the best format out there and is so much better than any Digital offering as to be embarrassing.

Steve

------------------
"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 11-04-2002 07:12 PM

Sorry, Antonio! There is always a way to turn any topic into a Dolby vs. dts or vs. SDDS discussion. We all just can`t seem to to be able to resist!!
As has been very convincingly explained by Ray in his post, this problem is likely to be a firmware glitch. So you will have to live with it until Dolby come up with a solution. Maybe you could contact and tell them, no more holidays in Italy for them until they have solved the problem

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-05-2002 02:43 AM

Michael,

I do no believe that it is a girmware issue. We have 16 CP650 and that one is the only one giving us troubles.
More, Minority Report was previously in other three screen with no problem.

Antonio

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 11-05-2002 04:04 AM

Well, I would change the ProLogic Decoder Card then (I don`t know much about the inner life of the CP650, but logic dictates it has to be there somehow). Take the card from another processor, preferably a really small screen or where you run a film that you really hate and consequentially you hate the people who see it so it doesn`t really matter if the CP runs amok

Or if there is any regularity to the problem, you could play the card game on a morning before the first show.
The real problem with switching cards to find out which is faulty is that you have to switch off the unit to pull the card out. As restarting the unit alone makes the problem disappear for the time being, you don`t know if it was your reboot or the physical card which made the difference...
How old is the unit? If it is not too old, simply impose on your dealer to take the whole thing out.

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-05-2002 06:05 AM

Michael,

You hit the point: the CP is 1 month old!

If it was my responsbility it was already replaced with a new one.

Bye
Antonio

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Jean-Michel Grin
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 222
From: Geneva & Lausanne, Switzerland
Registered: Jul 2002

posted 11-05-2002 08:48 AM

Antonio,

I Had a problem with one of brand new CP650 installed at hte Rialto in Geneva: The sound was lost during the show, with a crowned auditorium :-< of course ! Sh.....t !
The only solution was to switch to bypass finish the show and exchange the CP650....
From this moment I keep ready a fine CP 65 with a wiring harness to replace a CP 650 in case of failure.....;-)
What is the operating software of your CP650? Check it, the most recent version that I know is the version 2.3.10.8 as the ultimate soft.

Good Luck !

------------------
Jean-Michel Grin - Europlex Cinemas (Switzerland)

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Michael Schaffer
"Where is the
Boardwalk Hotel?"

Posts: 4143
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Apr 2002

posted 11-05-2002 11:20 AM

Jean-Michel, what does the abbreviation sh....t in your post stand for? Showtime?
Antonio, if the unit is 1 month old, where is the problem to ask for a replacement? The installer/dealer should be able to solve the problem or replace the unit. I am sure your management will not be opposed to it if you remind them how much the unit cost. Surely you have equipment warranty? Or does your dealer belong to Berlusconi`s empire and he had the government just pass a new law which makes it illegal to return equipment sold by his company? Wouldn`t surprise me.

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-05-2002 02:15 PM

PLEASE, keep aware the Politicians from this forum. It is completely Off Topic.

The reason of why that unit is still at its place is that I'm not the technical manager. I do not know how it works in other multiplex, but in mine I can just make a suggestion...

Bye
Antonio

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Ted Costas
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 119
From: Hollywood, CA, USA
Registered: May 2000

posted 11-05-2002 05:16 PM

Hey Brad,

I thought I had it in my contract that you'd give me a call whenever the Dolby bashing starts...

First of all, Dolby Rules.

Second of all, I am not an engineer. Allthough I play one on TV... Antonio, I'm going to have my CP650 guy contact you, or I could try and do a "John Pytlak" and answer the question myself: Hmmm, have you tried turning it off, then turning it back on again? (ha, ha).

Anybody ever needs any Dolby info, contact me, and I'll get the right person to contact you.

Yours, Ted

Ted Costas
Director
Dolby Distributor Services
Ted.Costas@Dolby.com

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Antonio Marcheselli
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1260
From: Florence, Italy
Registered: Mar 2000

posted 11-05-2002 05:28 PM

Hi Ted!

I forgot that you're now at Dolby!

Thanks for your help, I'll wait for a contact!

Bye
Antonio

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