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This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Portable Projection System
Jon Bartow
Master Film Handler

Posts: 287
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 11-09-2002 08:48 AM      Profile for Jon Bartow   Email Jon Bartow   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know how the laws work in AK, but you might want to check the laws regarding projection booths. I know in Massachusetts that they still require all of the protection for a portable nitrate booth if you want to create a portable booth (even though it is "safety film") I.e. concrete or asbestos walls, fire shutters over the portholes, etc. However, go ahead and try to find someone to enforce that law...

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-09-2002 10:41 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yah, there's the law and then there's the law. On the books in NY it still says there is supposed to be a licensed projectionist in the booth AT ALL TIMES (do you hear me laughing?). Plus, no one other than a licensed projectionist can operate the equipment (still laughing). I am laughing because it's a joke. The chains break that law ALL THE TIME. No one says boo. That's because the politicians and the exhibitors all sleep together. The chains have gone so far as to demand that licensing be totally eliminated. How's that for exhibition's quest for seeking the highest level of presentation? Get rid of the union, get rid of even the most minimal amount of uniform training -- at least the licensing procedure forced the applicant to study many aspects of booth operation (he/she had to pass a 3 hour written test and then a hands-on practical). It doesn't take the place of real booth training, and it focuses more on booth safety rather than presentation, but it's better than letting the chains stick the popcorn machine operators in the booth. We even introduced questions about film handling in the last few years of the test, bringing it up to speed on modern booth operation.

My understanding is that although our city council here rejected the elimination of the license, the chains got them to make the test a simple 10 answer thing that was about the same as the first few questions on WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE -- imbeciles could answer it. Only problem was, all but one of the assistant managers who the chains sent to pass the "easy" version of the licensing test, all failed. Poetic justice.

Frank

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Joshua Lott
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 246
From: Fairbanks, AK, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 11-09-2002 01:28 PM      Profile for Joshua Lott   Author's Homepage   Email Joshua Lott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I will keep all of you guys updated on progress. No laws regarding projection booths that I am aware of. I do know the labor laws.

There is still a law on the books in Fairbanks, Alaska that says 2 moose aren't allowed to have sex on the public side walks.

Anyway's keep those ideas and suggestions for this project coming.

------------------
-Joshua S. Lott
President & Owner
Consulting, Supply & Design

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 11-09-2002 09:37 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I see no justification for a licensing requirement. Sure, it would be nice if everyone working a booth had met certain skill requirements but I do not believe that to be the purview of government but between the employer, the employees, the union (if any), and, of course, the customers, who will vote with their pocketbooks. Licensing should be limited to matters affecting public, and to a lesser extent, personal safety. With the demise of nitrate film there is no longer a need. Concession workers present a greater potential threat to the public health and safety than do booth workers.

Besides, a good portion of crappy presentation and damage to film comes not from lack of knowlege but out of laziness and the desire to take every possible shortcut no matter the effect. There's no way to test for that.

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Joshua Lott
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 246
From: Fairbanks, AK, USA
Registered: Nov 1999


 - posted 11-11-2002 12:46 AM      Profile for Joshua Lott   Author's Homepage   Email Joshua Lott   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I was curious if anyone knows of good places to get these items (16mm projectors and sound portable screen and sound equip?)

If there is anyone that might want to rent these items to me please email me privately.

------------------
-Joshua S. Lott
President & Owner
Consulting, Supply & Design

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John Hawkinson
Film God

Posts: 2273
From: Cambridge, MA, USA
Registered: Feb 2002


 - posted 11-11-2002 08:17 AM      Profile for John Hawkinson   Email John Hawkinson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm sure, Steve, that you'll be gratified to know that the entity responsible for licensing in MA is the "Department of Public Safety."

I've never been fully clear on whether our licensing requirement was due more to nitrate film or union politics (your license application must be sponsored by an existing licensee)...

--jhawk

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-11-2002 08:24 AM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Concession workers in some states (Virginia, for one) are supposed to be licensed. I believe it was called a "food handlers' license" or something like that. I don't know what the procedure was to get it.

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Larry Shaw
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 238
From: Boston, MA, USA
Registered: Mar 2000


 - posted 11-13-2002 04:49 PM      Profile for Larry Shaw   Author's Homepage   Email Larry Shaw   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Gordon,

It was the FP 23 as you recalled. Now we have the FP 25 (D or E) which is larger, but will hold a feature and run 7kW.

------------------
Larry Shaw
Kinoton America
[Exclusive North American Distributor of Kinoton GmbH]
8 Goodenough Street
Boston, MA 02135-1903
Tel: 617-562-0003 x104 Fax: 617-787-4253
E-Mail: larry@kinotonamerica.com
Website:http://www.kinotonamerica.com

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-20-2002 03:28 AM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Steve,

The licensing requirement in the early days of booth operation has always been for safety issues, not for presentation skills, although many of the film handling skills and equipment knowledge questions that were on the test are related to a person's knowing enough about the equipment so as to be able to shut down quickly and effectively in case of fire. Practical tests included things like making splices, not because the Bureau of Gas and Electric gave a hoot about an out-of-frame blunder on the screen, but because in the days of nitrate film, a bad splice could cause a break in the projector and the potential for fire.

All that has changed. No more nitrate, no more fire hazard. Not so. Yes, there is no longer the nitrate danger, that doesn't mean film will not burn and today there is a LOT more film in a multiplex booth than there ever was in single screen operations. Before where as many as four prints in a booth at one time would have been considered an unusually large number, and all the reels in cans or in reel cabinets with a regulation that no more than 3 feet of a reel of film could be expose at one time while threading the projector, now you have a single projection booth common to 15, 20, 25 screen that can contain hundreds of thousands of film that is continuously exposed in open air. In many cases, the booths have common air conditioning systems with the theatres. As any fireman will tell you, in a crowded theatre, it is the smell of smoke that will cause panic without the sight of fire. It is still a matter of public safety that in a theatre there be someone in the booth that has at least minimal amount of training and knows the electrical systems, knows the safety codes, knows how to shut down the show in a safe manner so as not to cause panic.

The projection license, at least in NYC, is also a partial electrical license. It gives the holder the ability to install booth equipment and make electrical connections to the mains. He has to have knowledge of electrical codes and practices. This is not the kind of thing that should be left to the market place. At the very least, the license gives the local government a way of keeping an eye on the safety issues in theatres. The license requires the holder to report back to the Bureau any violation of code. In that sense, the projectionist is beholding to the city, not the theatre owner. If he sees a violation, even outside the booth -- a blocked exit door, for example, or any other hazardous situation, he is obligated to report back to the Bureau, this can be under pain of forfeiting his license (and presumably his livelihood -- a good motivation to "do the right thing.").

I failed my first practical because as I was running the film in the test projection booth, the examiner told me that there was a fire in the gate. I pulled the fire shutters, stopped the projector, turned on the house lights, and used the fire extinguisher, then called the theatre manager on the intercom. The examiner then asked, "And what else would you do?" I said I would leave the booth. "And what else?" I thought and thought and then gave up, thinking, "and go get drunk because I know I am missing something on this freakin test." He said, "Sorry, you did not pass."

Any NYC license holders out there know what I missed? Well, I didn't tell him that I should have immediately reported the "incident" to the Department of Gas and Electric. My point here being that the city does have a stake in knowing when serious safety issues arise in public places. The projectionist license gives them at least a modicum of control.

That being said, we have to understand that there are two reason for licensing -- 1) is the public safety issue, which I still believe in the modern multiplexes is reasonable for the city to demand a certian level of skill and 2) simply a monetary one, i.e., collecting money for the city. Unfortunately, today the NYC projectionist license has been removed from a bureau of safety regulation and moved to one which has no other function that to act as a collection agency for the city. Today projectionists are licensed not by the Bureau of Gas and Electric, but the Bureau of Consumer Affairs. If I called up tomorrow and said I had a fire incident in the projection booth, they wouldn't know what a booth was, let alone know what to do about it. They collect licensing fees from thousands of nuisance licenses, none of which have anything to do with safety. So in that sense, yes, THAT kind of projectionist license should be eliminated. But I wouldn't want to see it eliminated if it were back under the auspices of a safety regulatory body, the same as I wouldn't want to see eliminating electricians' or air conditioning engineers' licenses. They do serve as a way of insuring that the applicant has some measure of skill necessary in crafts that pose safety concerns.

Frank

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Steve Kraus
Film God

Posts: 4094
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Registered: May 2000


 - posted 11-20-2002 09:30 PM      Profile for Steve Kraus     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I stand by my assertion that there is no significant public safety issue that justifies a licensing requirement for projectionists. Film is plastic and if you need a license because you work with large amounts of exposed plastic then that would need to apply to almost every profession imaginable. Food handlers? Sure. Managers? Maybe, as they have the primary responsibility for crowd control in a fire or other emergency plus supervising the food handlers. Projectionists? Nope. You've said nothing that doesn't apply everywhere else, including, as a direct analogy, the tape handlers at your local tv station.

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Frank Angel
Film God

Posts: 5305
From: Brooklyn NY USA
Registered: Dec 1999


 - posted 11-21-2002 01:21 PM      Profile for Frank Angel   Author's Homepage   Email Frank Angel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tape doesn't run through a machine that pumps a radiant beam through it that can set it a blaze if it doesn't move fast enough nor are there a dozen platters each holding 10 thousand feet of the stuff, in the TV station, and most importantly, there aren't a couple of thousand people sitting in the TV station.

Then there's the issue of the electrical license. I suppose you could just say that projectionists shouldn't be allowed to make any electrical repairs or do any equipment installs in the booth, but that's not what the exhibitors want....they love the idea that they could get a licensed electrician in the body of a projectionist without having to pay licensed electrician prices.

And lastly, my booth, as do quite a few others in the city, still meet nitrate safety regs (or at least can if I replace the fire traps in the magazines) and as a rep house, we can still run the occasional nitrate print. If I hire a projectionist in such a situation his license tells me he is versed in all the safety issues involved.

Safety licenses are not the evil nemesis you seem to make them out to be. They are put in place, I think rightfully so, where safety issues can be potential hazards to the public. I agree that licensing just as another way for municipalities to impose a tax on working people should be either eliminated or called what it is, a tax arbitrarily targeting certain workers.

Besides, what's the big deal? Why shouldn't a municipality be able to require people who work in areas that involve the public and potential safety issues have basic skills and knowledge in their activity, whatever it might be. We license drivers, don't we?

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 11-21-2002 01:48 PM      Profile for Bill Gabel   Email Bill Gabel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frank

In NYC, you only have to pass the written test. They no longer
have the hands on practical test. The fee for the test is $200.00
and the license is $60.00 for two years. [Roll Eyes]
You have 2 months after license expires to renew otherwise you
have to take the [puke] test all over again and pay the $200.00
dollars. [Frown]

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John Pytlak
Film God

Posts: 9987
From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922
Registered: Jan 2000


 - posted 11-21-2002 02:06 PM      Profile for John Pytlak   Author's Homepage   Email John Pytlak   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The old General Cinema site had a "Primer" and sample test questions for the licensing exam in Massachusetts:

http://zulugruv.home.texas.net/gcc/primer.html

I recall that Tim Reed and Steve Geiger helped put together some of the material on the site.

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Scott Norwood
Film God

Posts: 8146
From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas)
Registered: Jun 99


 - posted 11-21-2002 02:39 PM      Profile for Scott Norwood   Author's Homepage   Email Scott Norwood   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
$200 to take a license test? Wow, what a deal! (Not!) That's insane. The Mass. license is $50 for two years.

Interestingly, I recently found out that the city of Providence, RI. (yes, the city, not the state...err..Commonwealth) still has a projectionist license requirement on the books, but they refuse to issue new licenses or renew existing ones. The fee was $2/year when they were last offering them (in the '80s, I'm told).

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Bill Gabel
Film God

Posts: 3873
From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA
Registered: Jan 2002


 - posted 11-21-2002 02:42 PM      Profile for Bill Gabel   Email Bill Gabel   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That's right [Eek!] $200.00 dollars for a test.

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