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Author Topic: What are the sound formats on 16mm film? Christian Appelt Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 505 From: Frankfurt, Germany Registered: Dec 2001 posted 02-23-2003 10:17 AM                     Has anybody actually seen a 16mm print with optical stereo tracks like those the ELMO machine was built for? I was told by a dubbing engineer that 16mm optical stereo was never used outside of Japan. When I used to work at the German Film Museum, we got many 16mm prints from Japan, but never a stereo track (which would have been played Mono on our Selecton Xenon machine anyway).  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 02-23-2003 05:42 PM                        Kodak (Ron Uhlig) first demonstrated stereo analog tracks with Dolby noise reduction in the early 1970's, using 16mm prints. Several SMPTE papers were published. I recall that the National Film Board of Canada used dual language optical tracks.  |  IP: Logged Michael Brown Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1522 From: Bradford, England Registered: May 2001 posted 02-23-2003 07:05 PM                     What the next student cinema meeting will most probably be like: Everyone else: So Mike did you get the 16mm set up yet? Me: No we can't run 16mm it's too complicated. The 16mm projectors are staying in the cupboard.  |  IP: Logged Mike Rendall Film Handler Posts: 78 From: Southampton, Hampshire, UK Registered: Nov 2002 posted 02-24-2003 03:25 AM                     It would be a shame since 16mm is quite fun, especially remaking loops on the fly when the dreaded claw snatches the sprockets out! We don't show much 16mm now, but we like to show the old vintage fred and ginger classics whenever we can. Mike  |  IP: Logged Tom Doyle Expert Film Handler Posts: 176 From: Bristol, CT, USA Registered: Nov 2002 posted 03-04-2003 11:44 PM                     We actually have a CP55 being used for 16mm right now. The projectionist uses two Eikis with 2000' reels. (This brand seems easy to use and handles film well.) He has them hooked up to a receiver that connects into the auxiliary input of the CP55. He uses the receiver because he plays his own non-sync music, either from cassette or cd, and uses a microphone to introduce each show. (Also, recently he played a silent film and had the musical score on cassette.) So the short answer to your question is: hook up the projector(s) to your mixer and you're all set. It shouldn't matter whether they are stereo or mono, just use the appropriate jack. (Most 16mm film is mono.) I'm not sure if you'll need a pre-amp or not, but some receivers come with one built in (for use with magnetic turntables). Otherwise, you could just pick up a stereo pre-amp at a local electronics store and hook it up between the projector and the receiver. The nice thing about 16mm is that there's always stuff for sale. Check out http://www.16mmfilms.com for a start. The projectionist at our theater has well over 100 cartoons and other shorts and shows at least one before each film - much easier than amassing a comparable 35mm collection.  |  IP: Logged Michael Brown Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1522 From: Bradford, England Registered: May 2001 posted 03-05-2003 04:24 AM                     What do you mean by a 'receiver'?  |  IP: Logged Scott Norwood Film God Posts: 8146 From: Boston, MA. USA (1774.21 miles northeast of Dallas) Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-05-2003 08:26 AM                        Don't use a phono preamp for a solar cell in a film projector. It is (more or less) effective at raising the level, but phono preamps designed for LPs (as opposed to '78s) use something called the "RIAA eq curve" which is different than the "Academy curve" used in film soundtracks. Both of them are relatively primitive and reasonably effective attempts at noise reduction, but they are different enough that your films will sound weird. A better choice would be a microphone preamp, preferably in line with some sort of EQ capability so that you can roll off the high frequencies (anything above 12KHz or so is just noise in a 16mm optical track). A low end Mackie (or similar) board works nicely for this, although you need to use the mute buttons to effect a sound changeover if using two machines.  |  IP: Logged Tom Doyle Expert Film Handler Posts: 176 From: Bristol, CT, USA Registered: Nov 2002 posted 03-09-2003 11:05 PM                     By 'receiver', I mean a component used in home stereo systems. It has inputs for different components (CD player, DVD player, VHS, phonograph, etc.) and has outputs for the speakers. Since he uses different components, it was an easy way for him to hook everything up together. Since you already have a mixer doing this job for you, just hook up the projector to the mixer. (Thanks for the tip, Scott. I guess that's why the pre-amps are never labeled as pre-amps, but instead as 'phono'.) I was asking my friend about soundtracks on 16mm. He told me he has no problems playing any kind of optical track on his mono projectors. He has variable density tracks that sound fine (he refers to them as Western Electric). This weekend he was using a cartoon with a duplex track and a feature with a duo-bilateral track (he called this RCA). I believe he is using the speaker outputs of the projectors for his sound. If you need any more info, just let me know. Thanks, Stephen! All those pictures and descriptions were *extremely* informative!  |  IP: Logged

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