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Author Topic: FP20 running slow Dave Macaulay Film God Posts: 2321 From: Toronto, Canada Registered: Apr 2001 posted 02-12-2003 03:24 PM                     Any known size film loop (a multiple of 24 frames - assuming you run 24fps - is a wise plan) and a stopwatch can be as accurate as you like with a stopwatch. If you time 12 passes of a 120 frame 5-second loop with a stopwatch you will be pretty accurate against the expected 1 minute...  |  IP: Logged Rick Long Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 759 From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Registered: Nov 1999 posted 02-12-2003 09:49 PM                     A stop-watch introduces the factor of human error in pressing it's stop button. (Did you hiccup before you pressed it?). Besides I have enough test equipment to carry up to the booth as it is. Further, not many projectionists have access to a frequency counter.  |  IP: Logged Mark Maxwell Film Handler Posts: 55 From: Tyler, TX, USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 02-13-2003 01:17 AM                     I have an FP20 manual that I can mail you. The problem is that I won't be back at my theater until Saturday, and every other fourth page is in english, so I'll have to undo the binders and put the english pages together to photocopy and mail it to you. Just don't pay attention to the index because it will mess you up if I just send you the pages that are in English.  |  IP: Logged Mark Maxwell Film Handler Posts: 55 From: Tyler, TX, USA Registered: Jul 2002 posted 02-13-2003 01:37 AM                     You are all going to think I'm stupid for this. There aren't a whole lot of FP20's out there. And probably few that have DTS. I'm lucky to have three of thase that have it. The motor runs everything on theese machines. If the motor runs slow, everything else does. Get a manual for one of the things. Get a multimeter and see if the motor is getting the power it should. If it is, thread up a reel of old trailors and thread it through the projector onto a platter. Theese are old reel to reel projectors, so they should feed the film in at the same speed. Use a hand held rpm tester against the reel on the mut(there is such a thing) and see if the reel is spinning slower than it should. And that's a regular reel, not a big house reel. If it's not running to speed, check the motor, or the power supply.  |  IP: Logged Larry Shaw Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Boston, MA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 02-13-2003 08:40 PM                        Scott, The FP-20 is a belt drive machine, V-belt for async and toothed belt for sync. It has been out of production for many years. It has a smaller chassis than the 30 and a convex rear door. The 20's replacement is the FP-30. Early production was belt drive and no suffix was used. Later the model became FP-30D, meaning direct drive, which also used a inverter to smoothly run the motor. Later still the FP-30E was introduced, with the servo drive intermittent to reduce jump to nearly 0.  |  IP: Logged Bill Gabel Film God Posts: 3873 From: Technicolor / Postworks NY, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 02-13-2003 08:49 PM                     Hi Larry I have a pair of Magna-Tech PR-135 Studio Projectors. They are a upgrade of the Kinoton FP-20 machine. They have been in this location for over 18 years. They handle film great.  |  IP: Logged Rick Long Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 759 From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Registered: Nov 1999 posted 02-13-2003 10:36 PM                     Another clue might be motor temperature. Motors running below the speed for which they are intended, tend to run hot.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-14-2003 01:18 AM                        Larry, doesn`t the "D" stand for digital meaning the FP-30 which comes complete with the Dolby reader?  |  IP: Logged Steve Guttag We forgot the crackers Gromit!!! Posts: 12814 From: Annapolis, MD Registered: Dec 1999 posted 02-14-2003 09:24 AM                     (Speaking for Larry at the moment)...NO the "D" does not stand for digital. The FP-20 and 30 series were both offered in "D" versions. The "D" series have all offered the ability for multiple speeds (due to the 3-phase motor controller). The "D" series was the last model of the FP-20 and both FP-20D and FP-30D models were offered concurrently. The "D" did not guarantee that it would be Direct Drive though...an FP-18D (16mm) still used a belt between the motor and shutter. Personally, I preferred the FP-20 line of projectors over the FP-30...they were sleeker and more solid. The FP-30 frame is more flexible in the sense of different configurations and is, no doubt, less expensive to manufacture. Steve  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-14-2003 10:06 AM                        Indeed, the "D" does not stand for the integrated digital reader. I do not know about the FP-18D, but it seems that "D" does stand for "Direktantrieb"=Direct Drive. Well, Larry has the most direct access (LarryD=Direct Access) to the information.  |  IP: Logged Rick Long Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 759 From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Registered: Nov 1999 posted 02-15-2003 01:25 AM                     Steve's picture must be running in an FP-20. So far, no new scratches.  |  IP: Logged Pete Naples Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1565 From: Dunfermline, Scotland Registered: Feb 2001 posted 02-15-2003 04:34 AM                     To check projector speed I use a hand held tachometer. Drive it off any constant speed sprocket shaft and read the display. It's pretty easy maths to calculate what 24fps = in rpm for different machines.  |  IP: Logged Larry Shaw Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Boston, MA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 02-15-2003 04:10 PM                        Michael, Steve is correct in his speaking for me on this. But don't feel bad, lots of people assume that is what the "D" means. The vast majority of 20's are suffix-free, but there are a few odd ones to be found (EG: "-A" for a particularly basic version made for a while). If you go to http://www.kinotonamerica.com/technical.htm , just below the tech notes there is a list of model codes I wrote a couple of years ago. As you can see, there is a downside to having such a broad (and always expanding) range of projection equipment. And yes, I know I need to update it. Any suggestions are always welcome. I can't really explain the 18D. I think it was done so all the mechanical drive (as opposed to servo intermittent) machines ended in "D". The D was also added to the DP-75 around that time if memory serves. But I'm sure an exception can be found. And Steve is correct that the 20's frame was more rigid. But it was smaller inside (harder for servicing), was very tough to drill or punch, not easy to add options or upgrades to, and very expensive to build. Bill, thanks for your comments on the PR-135. As you know MTE made a lot of mods in those. Of course later they made "their own" projectors, but we supplied the gate assy's, soundheads, lens holder assy's and a bunch of other stuff. Regarding the original post, If I had a FP-20 that ran slow, I'd first check belt slippage (assuming V-belt drive), then see if the aluminum motor pully was worn.  |  IP: Logged Michael Schaffer "Where is the Boardwalk Hotel?" Posts: 4143 From: Boston, MA Registered: Apr 2002 posted 02-15-2003 04:24 PM                        Oddly, I remember that it was a technician from Kinoton Germany who told me that it was for digital. But you are right of course. Another question. Why don`t you let film-tech publish the Kinoton manuals on this website? BTW I find Kinoton projectors better than most other types I have seen. But why do you reside in "Goodenough Street"? Shouldn`t you be more self-confident...  |  IP: Logged Larry Shaw Expert Film Handler Posts: 238 From: Boston, MA, USA Registered: Mar 2000 posted 02-15-2003 05:34 PM                        Michael, The decision not to put the manuals on-line comes from Kinoton in Germering. Simply, they own the copyright, after several requests they have decided "NO", so no it is. Sorry. The street name is abbreviated. The full name is: "Foryourtheatreourcompetitors'projectorsarenotgoodenough Street"  |  IP: Logged

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