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Author Topic: WTF is VITAFILM? Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-26-2003 10:16 AM                     You must be really applying the FG thick Leo. I've put very thick coats on many shrunken and scratched prints to hide deep scratches and get them running smoothly again and never had a splice pull apart or appear to weaken. Are you using the Kelmar cleaner for application? Maybe that has something to do with it. Are you submersing the film? (I don't particularly recommend that.) Any idea what kind of tape was used for the splices?  |  IP: Logged Randy Stankey Film God Posts: 6539 From: Erie, Pennsylvania Registered: Jun 99 posted 03-26-2003 10:39 AM                     In my experience, if you splice the film before you treat it so the tape goes onto dry film, there will be no problem with the splices coming apart no matter how much FG you put on. (Well, Almost.) If, on the other hand, the film already has FG on it, the tape might not even stick. You have to clean the stuff off the film or you risk the splices coming undone.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 03-27-2003 06:45 AM                        quote: Are you using the Kelmar cleaner for application? No, a Selvyt (lint-free cotton) cloth, with one or two squirts of FG per 300 feet or so (150-200 if the film is in a very bad way), applied with light pressure between thumb and forefinger to both surfaces of the film whilst winding on a vertical bench. quote: Are you submersing the film? (I don't particularly recommend that.) If you mean fully immersing it in a container of FG, no. quote: Any idea what kind of tape was used for the splices? Jack Roe own-brand. After treating a very dirty or scratched film, I find that you usually have about half an hour before the joins start to become unreliable. If you transfer or project it straightaway, no problem.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-27-2003 12:01 PM                     Ok, I can see now why you are having issues with splices. That is far more than I have ever needed to put on a film to hide scratches and make it runnable again. You may be working with especially beaten film though.  |  IP: Logged Bruce McGee Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1776 From: Asheville, NC USA... Nowhere in Particular. Registered: Aug 1999 posted 03-27-2003 03:48 PM                     I applied VF the same way that I apply FG: with my thick pads. FG has had every opportunity to cause tape splices to die, but has not done this. VF would cause splices to pull apart over just a few days time. FG goes alot further than VF ever did. I can clean alot more film with FG by the quart than I could Vitafilm by the gallon. I think that Vitafilm smells better than FilmGuard, but thats where it stops. I apply all splices before the FG treatment. VF used to affect cement splices when I made them after VF treatments. I got into the habit of putting a dab of film cement on the base of the piece not scraped, and immediately wipe it off. I guess it removed all traces of the VF. These splices are still holding after 25+ years! Bruce  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 03-28-2003 07:45 AM                        quote: That is far more than I have ever needed to put on a film to hide scratches and make it runnable again. You may be working with especially beaten film though. The issue is not just hiding scratches; it's also lubricating the film surface in the case of older elements. Cellulose diacetate and propionate elements from the 20s-40s tend to shrink and become extremely brittle. This means that the distance between each perforation reduces slightly, thus increasing the pressure on the side of each perf when a claw or sprocket tooth engages it. Added to that, the brittleness of the stock means that the perforations are less able to withstand the extra pressure and are therefore prone to tearing. I've found that FG can help a great deal in getting these elements through a telecine transfer, but you do have to use a lot of it. Where possible, I simply remake cement joins with new cement. Where that is not possible I prefer to use tape because a new cement join would mean the loss of two frames. In such cases I've found that the key is to make the transfer as soon as possible after applying the FG, and it's normally OK. We then make a note on the database stating that this element was cleaned with FG on <insert date here>, so that we know to re-examine the joins if it should ever need to be transferred again, or sent to a lab for duping.  |  IP: Logged Brad Miller Administrator Posts: 17775 From: Plano, TX (36.2 miles NW of Rockwall) Registered: May 99 posted 03-28-2003 01:34 PM                     Amazingly enough, all of the film that I've handled that was that old wasn't too shrunken, but I can see now more of what you are dealing with. The absolute worst films I've dealt with were prints that got flooded with water from an overnight roof leak onto a platter. Wiping the edges extra generously and then running the film through two media cleaners saturated on the way to the projector always works. That first payout is rough, but it's always made it. Without the treatment, the film was basically glued together.  |  IP: Logged Leo Enticknap Film God Posts: 7474 From: Loma Linda, CA Registered: Jul 2000 posted 03-31-2003 08:07 AM                        quote: Amazingly enough, all of the film that I've handled that was that old wasn't too shrunken... I find that nitrate tends to stay pretty tough and resilient almost to the very end. Yes, it will shrink and warp slightly, but even so will still have quite a high tensile strength and will run through a mechanism reasonably well until its gets into the last-but-one stage of decomposition, i.e. it starts to get sticky. The elements I find that think coatings of FG help with are pre-1948 acetates, which were used mainly in 16mm and other small gauges. Here they will gradually shrink and become brittle as time goes on, and I've found that FG applied in sufficient quantities will lubricate both surfaces and so minimise the effects of friction which could otherwise tear them.  |  IP: Logged

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