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Author Topic: Question about ORC 1600 lamphouse Luciano Brigite Master Film Handler Posts: 277 From: Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Registered: Jan 2002 posted 04-15-2003 12:28 AM                     Hi, While looking at the pictures of this lamphouse, I noticed that part of the ignitor assembly is showing behind the reflector. I have two ORC ignitor assembly that looks like that one and both of them had the spark gap broken (the glass bulb I mean) and I want to replace them but since the bulb is gone, no code for that part, could anyone tell what kind of gap is that? I was thinking about replacing with a std gap but don't know if the original one was a special gap since it was assembled in a glass tube. thanks  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 04-15-2003 01:34 AM                     Luciano, I do believe that spark gap is the same as you would find in the XH-16S ORC lamphouse. JFI, the igniter laying on the floor of the Cine-X 35 (which is the 1600), 2500, and 3000 ORC lamps shared the same problem....Arc-off to the mirror. It shows in Sam's picture. Here are two pictures of a junk lamphouse of mine. Speaking of lamphouses, the ORC 2500 uses a more ballsey version of the RPS-1600 power supply, and its model number was the RPS-2500. The 3000 usually uses the RPS-40 power supply. The RPS-40 and the RP-60 are a critters all by themselves. If I recall, the RP-60 uses 3 phase power, but I can't be certain. It has been 20 years since I fiddled with them. Anyway, they both use a magnetic amplifier for current adjustment. It is basically a saturable core reactor, using a DC voltage on the control winding to change the saturation level of the power transformer. For electrical history buffs, the magnetic amplifier was invented by the Germans. We found them on some old WWII German submarines. They are highly efficient in their operation. Sam, the ORC 1600 lamp is almost identical to the ORC-3000 and 2500 lamp in wiring. That might help you. The only real difference I have seen is the XLR connector is not used in the 3000 or the 2500. If memory serves me correctly, that connector was part of the automation loop. Jumpering pins 1 and 2 complete the automation loop. The XH-16S and the XH-30S lamps are a different mechanical design. The re-located the blower and placed the igniter on the top of the mirror bulkhead. Much nicer to work on. The XH-16S and the XH-30S lamps are still quite popular. Many are still in service.  |  IP: Logged Luciano Brigite Master Film Handler Posts: 277 From: Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Registered: Jan 2002 posted 04-15-2003 12:45 PM                     ORC lamphouses are very rare stuff here where I am then I don't know the XH-16S Paul mentioned, but I believe I could figure out the code for the spark gap in the picture he posted ,?SF 500 . one curious thing.. both ignitors I got had burnt terminals on the tesla coils, just like the one showing on the pictures, replaced them with coils for up to 2500W,is that a common problem with them? thanks  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 04-15-2003 01:32 PM                     Be careful on the coil selection. They have different electrical ratings, and different mechanical dimensions. In other words, if you used an igniter from a 3000 and tried to put it in a 1600, it might not fit. Even if it did fit, you would probably have to use a different spark gap. If you tried to use a 1600 igniter in a 3000 lamp, it would probably burn up the black transformer. Edited for clarity purposes. [ 04-15-2003, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-15-2003 01:36 PM                        Interesting choice to put plastic components (like insulation) in an area where the UV-rich arc energy could shine on them and degrade the materials. Heat is bad enough for electronic components, but strong ultraviolet (UV) energy will eventually destroy many plastics. In the photos, you can almost discern where the light hit the components.  |  IP: Logged Sam Hunter Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 779 From: West Monroe, LA, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 04-15-2003 02:37 PM                     Many Many Thanks all for the advise and information! Think I found me a source for a new bulb so thats out of the way. Can't wait to see what kind of a monster paul is sending me. Anyway, thanks all.  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 04-15-2003 02:41 PM                     Luciano, the spark gap is a SPSG500, and was made by Victoreen, Inc. of Cleveland Ohio, I believe. I also don't know if this company exists anymore. I think you can fabricate your own spark gap without too much trouble. I have seen some home brews that use 1/4-inch bolts, and I have seen some using rounded tip 6-32 Allen screws. The thing you will have to be concerned with is the gap. If the gap is too wide, it may not fire. If the gap is too small, the ignition pulse may not be hot enough to fire the bulb. I don't know what the gap should be, but .050 inches seems to enter my mind. In any event if you make your own and don't have the gap specifications, it'll probably be a trial and error method to see what you need. If your lamp still works with the broken glass, measure it with a feeler gauge and set your contraption to that setting. You should be just fine. BUT REMEMBER......SAFETY FIRST!!!! Ignition pulses getting into your fingers will throw you through the wall behind you, if it doesn't kill you first! Been there. ORC used several different types of spark gaps through the years, but I don't know if this specific one is still available. There have been some retro-fits out on the streets that used a tube instead of a glass bulb like yours. The ORC Optimax Console used basically the same igniter as the XH-16 lamp, but it was mounted differently. Later today I'll go and check the manual and see if I can dig up a current part number of someting that might work. **************************************************************** Sam, it weighs 100 lbs and sleeps by the door. If you trip over it, it will not move. If you drop it, it won't stop until it reaches China. Stick with a 1000 watt bulb, though. Although a 1600 will work, it would be starved of current. Edited for technical clarity. [ 04-15-2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]  |  IP: Logged Sam Hunter Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 779 From: West Monroe, LA, USA Registered: Jan 2002 posted 04-15-2003 03:01 PM                     quote: Sam, it weighs 100 lbs and sleeps by the door. If you trip over it, it will not move. If you drop it, it won't stop until it reaches China. Kinda like a sleeping lion huh paul? Yes, I have ordered a 1K lamp for this beasty. Later!  |  IP: Logged Luciano Brigite Master Film Handler Posts: 277 From: Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Registered: Jan 2002 posted 04-15-2003 04:03 PM                     Thanks for the complete code Paul The reason I was asking about it is because the gap was sealed in a glass tube and I don't know if it was suposed to have vacuum or then another gas inside. I'll look for that gap and if I can't find, I'll replace it with the ones I'm used to see on the ignitors made here . The coil I made as replacement isn't much bigger than the original one, except that it doesn't have that rock-like stuff all over it. I used teflon tape ( the white one ) and high voltage electrical tape. Id take some pictures of it if that's of interest, just let me know . And I know how nasty an ignitor "bite" can be.. had it twice  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 04-15-2003 04:47 PM                     The ORC spark gap part number that might work in your application is 1122349. What they cost is a very good question. However, it will probably cost an arm and a leg for overseas shipment and probably is not worth the hassle.  |  IP: Logged Luciano Brigite Master Film Handler Posts: 277 From: Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Registered: Jan 2002 posted 04-15-2003 05:46 PM                     Thanks again Paul There is one electronic parts supplier here in town that still deals with tubes ( I think they're the last one that still deals with tubes), half of them for transmitting and industrial applications, I'll try there first, who knows? maybe they can have it if not they'll point somewhere to look for. If I can't find, will spend the weekend in the shop making them. Thanks!  |  IP: Logged Paul G. Thompson The Weenie Man Posts: 4718 From: Mount Vernon WA USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 04-15-2003 08:10 PM                     Fabricate a spark gap similar to what transmitters use in some of their tank circuits. Little brass balls screwed on the ends of 6-32 machine screws mounted on bakelite or some other non-conducting materials. That should work nicely, and will probably never fail. Then you can say your lamphouse "Has Balls..."  |  IP: Logged Luciano Brigite Master Film Handler Posts: 277 From: Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil Registered: Jan 2002 posted 04-16-2003 08:54 AM                     *chuckle* balls and bulbs I'll try to remember to take some pictures of whatever i come out with those ignitors.  |  IP: Logged

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