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Author Topic: Speakers behind screen vs. around screen question. Ray Bernardi Expert Film Handler Posts: 120 From: Antrim, NH, USA Registered: Feb 2003 posted 04-11-2003 09:06 AM                     That sounds logical. A slightly smaller image would be okay here. I'm only 95 seats. I can't imagine that the screen 20 inches closer would make a huge difference.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-11-2003 09:09 AM                        Just be sure to "Care About Composition" and mask the image to the correct aspect ratio: http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/newsletters/pytlak/spring2001.shtml  |  IP: Logged Ray Bernardi Expert Film Handler Posts: 120 From: Antrim, NH, USA Registered: Feb 2003 posted 04-11-2003 10:14 AM                     Yes I understand that. We show scope and flat differently. At the moment we do not mask the flat image, we leave the extra screen on either side. The plans are to have a set of curtains that can be adjusted to suit the type of film being shown. I can't imagine cutting a scope down to the size of a flat. My God, you'd lose half the movie! By the way, I was going to leave the old screen intact behind the new screen. That was the plan. I'm going to change that and take it down (cut into it for the new speakers). That way the speakers can set back farther and the new screen will only be about 10 inches closer that the old screen. The difference should not be that noticable.  |  IP: Logged Mark J. Marshall Film God Posts: 3188 From: New Castle, DE, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 04-11-2003 10:29 AM                    quote: I can't imagine cutting a scope down to the size of a flat. My God, you'd lose half the movie! Oh, that's ok. We do it all the time.  |  IP: Logged Daryl C. W. O'Shea Film God Posts: 3977 From: Midland Ontario Canada (where Panavision & IMAX lenses come from) Registered: Jun 2002 posted 04-11-2003 10:29 AM                        Dope! Remind me not to post immediately after dragging my arse outta bed!  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-11-2003 11:06 AM                        Mark J. Marshall wrote: quote: Oh, that's ok. We do it (severely cropping the image) all the time. So, what are YOU doing about it? Remember, "Film Done Right" means never having to say you're sorry.  |  IP: Logged Frank Angel Film God Posts: 5305 From: Brooklyn NY USA Registered: Dec 1999 posted 04-11-2003 05:18 PM                        There are always physical limitations that impact on how you need to approach each situation. In our big theatre where the stage is used for all manner of live shows, the screen must fly. There is no way around it so we just have to deal with it -- it prevents us from placing speakers directly behind the screen. I can state unequivically (I've had to live with this for years), unless you happen to be sitting way over to the side or in the first three or four rows, the illusion that the sound is coming from the actors mouths is not lost because of the speaker placement (center channel directly above the top of the screen and left & right on either side). The further back you sit, the less of an issue it becomes. Hey, live shows NEVER have speakers located behind the singers or actors; in most live venues they are hung stories above the stage or the stacks sit on the sides of the proscenium -- your brain is able to make the connection and it easily joins the image and the sound. It has never been even a small problem for us. Naturally a perf screen with speakers located behind it where the sound IS coming from the screen, is ideal (you don't have to rely on an illusion to make it work), but the brain seems to do a fine job melding sound and picture for most patrons. As for your existing screen, if cost simply will not allow you to replace it, look at it this way....it does have an up-side -- it's CURVED! Some of us experiece ecstasy and levitate when we see a curved screen. Curved screens were part of the original CinemaScope spec then later abandoned because of cost. Using a curved screen adds great panoramic impact to any presentation. If you need to refinish the surface, you can do it to very good advantage by doing what the Drive-ins do -- get the whitest flat white paint that you can find -- paint that has a high titanium content -- and give it a first coat, let it dry. Then get silver paint and spray it carefully so as not to cause any dripping (not an easy feat, but it can be done with a good spray painting system). There are a few companies that still can supply silver paint for spraying a screen so it can be used for 3D. When the silver coat dries, it is then sprayed with another light coat of white paint again over silver. This method will produce a fairly high gain screen without the downside of hotspots. And it will be C U R V E D ! Frank  |  IP: Logged Peter Schoell Film Handler Posts: 47 From: Paynesville, MN, USA Registered: Jul 2001 posted 04-11-2003 07:06 PM                     Ya know, Ray, you don't have to do everything at once. If you put in the new sound system, it will be an great improvment in your presintation. Next year you can put in the screen and get new lenses. I always improve on a budget too.  |  IP: Logged Mike Blakesley Film God Posts: 12767 From: Forsyth, Montana Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-11-2003 07:10 PM                        Our screen is curved. But the damn thing is 15x30. The screen is wall to wall, so our scope image is cropped somewhat, which bothers me to no end. But the upside is, I've been here for nearly 25 years and have yet to have a single complaint about it, so I guess I can live with it.  |  IP: Logged Ray Bernardi Expert Film Handler Posts: 120 From: Antrim, NH, USA Registered: Feb 2003 posted 04-14-2003 05:41 AM                     I wrote the check. We're going with the new screen and new sound equipment. I need to start taking some pictures for you all. It looks like we'll be ready to install in about two to three weeks. The rack is going to be pre wired, and I need to run all the speaker cable and be ready to move fast. My plan is to put up the new screen and sounds in a day and not disrupt business. I think I can, I think I can..... Oh boy - here we go......  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-14-2003 06:07 AM                        Ray --- thanks for investing in "Film Done Right". Your customers will really appreciate the improvements.  |  IP: Logged Ray Bernardi Expert Film Handler Posts: 120 From: Antrim, NH, USA Registered: Feb 2003 posted 04-14-2003 08:52 AM                     John, there's no other way is there? Ya gotta do it right! I agree that people will notice and I think this will be a big boost for my little business. I'm pretty excited about it all. It looks like we will premiere the new sound system with the Matrix Reloaded premiere. That should give us some bang for the buck. We are green green green for May 15!!!!!!  |  IP: Logged Mark Seaton Film Handler Posts: 7 From: Glenview, IL, USA Registered: Aug 2002 posted 04-14-2003 12:56 PM                        Hi guys, One point to keep in mind when weighing the trade offs being discussed is our sensitivity to these directional cues. Our hearing is very sensitive in the horizontal plane, but MUCH less so in the vertical. From my own casual observation, strong floor or ceiling reflections and very directional speakers (wide band) are required to have the image shift significantly. You have to have a pretty steep vertical angle to get the sense of speakers above you.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 04-14-2003 02:03 PM                     A steep verticle angle will be found for people seated in the front third of the theatre normally  |  IP: Logged Richard Hamilton Phenomenal Film Handler Posts: 1341 From: Evansville, Indiana Registered: Jan 2000 posted 04-14-2003 08:56 PM                     quote: At the moment we do not mask the flat image, we leave the extra screen on either side. The plans are to have a set of curtains that can be adjusted to suit the type of film being shown. I can't imagine cutting a scope down to the size of a flat. My God, you'd lose half the movie! Be careful. If you are planning on side curtains to mask the image, dont cover the left and right speakers unless you have sound transparent masking material!! Rick  |  IP: Logged

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