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Author Topic: Ektapro 5000 - I need more light for these slides! Matt Close Expert Film Handler Posts: 226 From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia Registered: Sep 2001 posted 05-18-2003 06:50 PM                        As much as I would love to see LCD projectors doing the advertising presentation ..... I don't think it will happen. We do all our slides in-house, so all the gear is owned by us..... and I don't think it is 'that' bad to warrant the outlay for the Panasonics. Is there really no 'upgrade' for the Ektapro projectors? Surely there must be a lot of them in service.  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 05-19-2003 09:03 AM                        You really need to consider a projector using an arc light source to get significantly more light than the usual tungsten-halogen lamps. Elmo has a 550 watt xenon unit (Omnigraphic 550 Xenon AF), and ORC used to offer modified Kodak projectors equipped with a xenon source.  |  IP: Logged Matt Close Expert Film Handler Posts: 226 From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia Registered: Sep 2001 posted 05-19-2003 06:52 PM                        Thanks John .... Any idea on how much these units cost? .... And also, do you know if these or other companys offer some sort of upgrade 'kit' or 'add-on' to allow conversion to a xenon source?  |  IP: Logged John Hawkinson Film God Posts: 2273 From: Cambridge, MA, USA Registered: Feb 2002 posted 05-19-2003 09:58 PM                     I'd expect the units are in the high single thousands (USD), new. The ORC unit was the "Xenographic XL," available in 500W and 750W versions, and when ORC self-destructed, it was bought by Strong. I don't believe they sell it anymore. I've also been told that the Navitar units are still available. Navitar's price page lists them starting at $7k (USD) for the 560W. --jhawk  |  IP: Logged Matt Close Expert Film Handler Posts: 226 From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia Registered: Sep 2001 posted 05-20-2003 02:20 AM                        Ok .... Xenon is going to be out of the question .... but has anybody actually upgraded to these 'Navitar 40% brighter' light modules for the Ektapro series of projectors? I'd like to know just how much better the image looked ..... and don't say 40% better!  |  IP: Logged Joe Beres Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 606 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 05-20-2003 09:08 AM                     The venue I work in is used for lectures and many other types of evernt, so we use slide projectorsquite often. Most of our projectors, all Kodak, are equipped with Gavi Lampmaster Duo units. On one occasion, we rented a xenon projector, and were quite unhappy with the results. The image was not significantly brighter, and the slides did not look "normal." I am assuming that the slides were processed with the color temp of an EXR lamp in mind. The "whiter" xenon lamp made everything look bluer than it should. That same night, we had the rental company bring in one of the Navitar units you speak of, and we did a side by side comparison of the Navitar and Kodak extra bright modules. The differences between the two were practically undetectable. The extra bright modules beat the brightness on the Gavi units and the Xenon projector considerably. It's been a while since I've used a Kodak projector with a standard lamp module, but I would not be surprised if there was a "40%" increase in brightness. However, as someone else mentioned, lamplife on the brighter lamps is considerably less than the standard lamps. As you do research, I would also recommend looking into the Gavi units, as they allow a bit more brightness by eliminating the mirror and allow for a quick lamp change if you lose a lamp in the middle of a presentation.  |  IP: Logged Gordon McLeod Film God Posts: 9532 From: Toronto Ontario Canada Registered: Jun 99 posted 05-20-2003 09:31 AM                     I am less than impressed with the navitar upgrade lampmodule. The cost per hour of operation would make xenon actually cheaper  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 05-20-2003 10:50 AM                        Again, please remember that reducing the image area is also a tool you can use to increase screen luminance. I'd much rather see a reasonably bright 10 x 15 foot image, than a really dim 20 x 30 foot image.  |  IP: Logged Fred Georges Master Film Handler Posts: 257 From: Lombard, IL, USA Registered: Jun 2000 posted 05-20-2003 04:41 PM                     Hi Joe, Holy Cow, If that Xenon didn't stomp your tungsten machine (even with a Hot Shot module) there was something seriousley wrong with the Xenon. Most "rental" Xenon machines I've used Never have the lamps properly focused as the rental outfits defocus them to prevent burning the slides which is Bullshit. A Navitar Xenon 750 (750)watts properly adjusted will NOT burn slides & puts out over 5000 lumens. The best that a high bright "Hot Shot" tungsten module can put out is about 2000 lumens with a fresh lamp. They also make 1000 watt Xenon machines that put out over 8000 lumens without toasting slides. I own 5 Nav 750's and think they're fabulous BUT they sure ain't cheap.  |  IP: Logged Matt Close Expert Film Handler Posts: 226 From: Hervey Bay, QLD, Australia Registered: Sep 2001 posted 05-20-2003 06:57 PM                        John ... I have already tried to reduce the image size .. but I did not get a 'big' increase in brightness ...  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 05-21-2003 07:38 AM                        In general, if you halve the image area, you get twice the brightness. A 10 x 15 foot image will be 4 times brighter than a 20 x 30 foot image, all else being equal.  |  IP: Logged Fred Georges Master Film Handler Posts: 257 From: Lombard, IL, USA Registered: Jun 2000 posted 05-21-2003 08:19 AM                     One thing overlooked in the slide projector brightness derby is the speed of your lense. Most of the popular zooms are in the neighborhood of F2.8-3.5 thats a lot of light eaten up by the glass. If your throw is acceptable you may be able to use a fixed focus lense with an f under 2. which will increase brightness considerably. You give up some depth of focus but, if you glass mount your slides they will remain flat in the gate and focus will be consitant. You should be able to score the lense you need off eBag for $50.00  |  IP: Logged John Pytlak Film God Posts: 9987 From: Rochester, NY 14650-1922 Registered: Jan 2000 posted 05-21-2003 08:35 AM                        I agree. You will normally get better efficiency with a fixed focal length lens with a low f-number.  |  IP: Logged Joe Beres Jedi Master Film Handler Posts: 606 From: Minneapolis, MN, USA Registered: Nov 2000 posted 05-21-2003 10:08 AM                     Fred, that's what I thought, too, so I found the manual online, realigned the lamp, and it didn't look any better. Then, we had a tech from the rental house come over. He seemed to know what he was talking about. He said he installed a new lamp and tuned the machine up before delivering it to us. He said that they have had nothing but problems with the Navitar Xenons.  |  IP: Logged Fred Georges Master Film Handler Posts: 257 From: Lombard, IL, USA Registered: Jun 2000 posted 05-21-2003 02:51 PM                     Dear Joe, I've found the Nav's to be super reliable. In the 12 years I've used them (I do a LOT of slide work-Mostly medicals in multiple double & triple screen presentations) I've had to go to a back up machine only once and thats because the Kodak AF3 projector head jammed big time. The lamps for those Nav's are $1000.00 and most rental houses run them to the bitter end. It could have been a power supply problem though they usually are go or no go. Hope you get to try out a good one, you'll be impressed too.  |  IP: Logged

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